American Politics Discussion Thread

[Boro]

I have to admit babies' trolling has the merit of getting me to post (3/10, try harder), even though I was planning on sleeping. Here's a thing. And I'm going to appeal to my authority as someone who would potentially benefit from Trump's victory and a cessation of conflict in my neighbourhood, and especially from a neutral-enough rump Ukraine with it's borders revised in our favor:

Trump isn't going to improve anything. All the yapping about peace and ending everything in 24 hours? Nonsense. Take a look at the numbers that explain why: Page 1. Key facts "sidebar" *, bullet point 6.

"Arms imports by states in Europe were 94 per cent higher in 2019–23 than in 2014–18. A total of 55 per cent of European arms imports came from the USA in 2019–23, compared with 35 per cent in 2014–18" - Stockholm Peace Research Institute (https://www.sipri.org/publications/2024/...sfers-2023)

To put it mildly, the current situation of war and tension is good for business. Second, America's position compared to the EU is far better off two years into the conflict than before. Where Trump was mocked and complained about for "alienating" allies with threats of tariffs (to german cars) and loud and rude opposition to Nord Stream 2, and of course demanding increased arms spendings, Biden managed to get it all done - over tripling the market for American arms, as well as getting American LNG a big chunk of the EU's energy market, to bring these points in. Why would Trump endanger the results that he himself worked with his entire foreign policy crew to create, on behalf of the very same arms industry? For human lives? Since when did US foreign policy care about non-american lives beyond it's immediate influence or economic interests? Foreign policy does not work on morals/values and their associated principles. Those are window dressings to achieve the fulfilment of interests.

Just think of the drone campaign before the Afghanistan pullout started and the indiscriminate nature of it. Biden may have the dubious "honour" of having bombed the aid worker an american NGOs contracted, plus collateral children, but much less published bombings of similarly indiscriminate or "oopsie" nature happened on a pretty much industrial scale under Trump as a political influence tool. Not better the slightest. Hurricane Helene and Milton did more to stop the wars than literally every american detractor combined.

*(will edit in a better phrase if someone needs and supplies it)

[Charr Babies]

I have to admit babies' trolling has the merit of getting me to post (3/10, try harder), even though I was planning on sleeping. Here's a thing. And I'm going to appeal to my authority as someone who would potentially benefit from Trump's victory and a cessation of conflict in my neighbourhood, and especially from a neutral-enough rump Ukraine with it's borders revised in our favor:

Trump isn't going to improve anything. All the yapping about peace and ending everything in 24 hours? Nonsense. Take a look at the numbers that explain why: Page 1. Key facts "sidebar" *, bullet point 6.

"Arms imports by states in Europe were 94 per cent higher in 2019–23 than in 2014–18. A total of 55 per cent of European arms imports came from the USA in 2019–23, compared with 35 per cent in 2014–18" - Stockholm Peace Research Institute (https://www.sipri.org/publications/2024/...sfers-2023)

To put it mildly, the current situation of war and tension is good for business. Second, America's position compared to the EU is far better off two years into the conflict than before. Where Trump was mocked and complained about for "alienating" allies with threats of tariffs (to german cars) and loud and rude opposition to Nord Stream 2, and of course demanding increased arms spendings, Biden managed to get it all done - over tripling the market for American arms, as well as getting American LNG a big chunk of the EU's energy market, to bring these points in. Why would Trump endanger the results that he himself worked with his entire foreign policy crew to create, on behalf of the very same arms industry? For human lives? Since when did US foreign policy care about non-american lives beyond it's immediate influence or economic interests? Foreign policy does not work on morals/values and their associated principles. Those are window dressings to achieve the fulfilment of interests.

Just think of the drone campaign before the Afghanistan pullout started and the indiscriminate nature of it. Biden may have the dubious "honour" of having bombed the aid worker an american NGOs contracted, plus collateral children, but much less published bombings of similarly indiscriminate or "oopsie" nature happened on a pretty much industrial scale under Trump as a political influence tool. Not better the slightest. Hurricane Helene and Milton did more to stop the wars than literally every american detractor combined.

*(will edit in a better phrase if someone needs and supplies it)

As one troll to another, nice try  We are truly two of a kind
You are right, he goes all nuts

[Boro]

Not quite because I have both political memory, and a clue about how politics actually work.

And in case you missed it I was on MJMD's side on this one.

[Charr Babies]

Not quite because I have both political memory, and a clue about how politics actually work.

Awesome! Maybe you can explain how dumb and dumber are so different; to debunk the myth that trump's behavior is unpredictable. Tell us what he does makes perfect sense, that he is wrongly smeared as a lunatic. While you are at it, tell us why that yahoo guy commits genocide. You must have predicted that. Please, I am all ears.

And in case you missed it I was on MJMD's side on this one.

Just this time then. Yes, I have to agree he gets it right sometimes. There is hope

[darrelljs]

The whole "Harris's election to lose" thesis has always annoyed me, but I couldn't articulate why until I read this list debunking it.  Yes, Trump is a bad example of humanity, but that's not a new factor from 2016 or 2020.  Democrats continue to avoid coming out strong on issues that people care about in favor of the bogeyman argument.  It didn't work for Clinton but it did for Biden.  We'll see for Harris, but I am doubtful.

Darrell

[greenline]

To put it mildly, the current situation of war and tension is good for business. Second, America's position compared to the EU is far better off two years into the conflict than before. Where Trump was mocked and complained about for "alienating" allies with threats of tariffs (to german cars) and loud and rude opposition to Nord Stream 2, and of course demanding increased arms spendings, Biden managed to get it all done - over tripling the market for American arms, as well as getting American LNG a big chunk of the EU's energy market, to bring these points in. Why would Trump endanger the results that he himself worked with his entire foreign policy crew to create, on behalf of the very same arms industry? For human lives? Since when did US foreign policy care about non-american lives beyond it's immediate influence or economic interests? Foreign policy does not work on morals/values and their associated principles. Those are window dressings to achieve the fulfilment of interests.

It is an open question if said business wants Trump elected, though.

[Brian Shanahan]

Lets be clear Trump is likely to be MUCH worse on Gaza. This one is pretty certain. Its the future so not 100% but its about as close as you can get. I mean how do you square Republicans pushing for more funding for Israel? I've been avoiding this because Biden does clearly have blame being the president, but those bombs have a lot of Republican votes and pressure behind them. Just ignoring this and future consequences if that party and a president so blatantly pro Netanyahu gain power doesn't make sense.

Less certainty on Ukraine. How would Trump stop the Ukraine war? Most likely by not giving aid. If we stop aid will Russia want more or less? More, the answer is more. And mind you Russia's current demands basically equate to a surrender. Will Ukraine be willing to give up basically everything? Seems unlikely. It would also require Europe stop sending aid and just letting Russia win. So either Europe continues sending aid but more Ukrainians die since less overall aid or Europe backs down as well basically forcing Ukrainian surrender (which seems unlikely but COULD happen). Seems like this will just lead autocrats being more willing to launch wars because they think the West will back down again. Appeasement will surely work this time! This will surely lead to less wars in the future! Peace in our time!

What about accountability for the future? What about accountability for trying to overturn an election. How will you hold accountability in the future if our democracy falls. ANSWER THAT.

T****y's plan for Ukraine, pressure the country into an unconditional surrender and if that fails put US boots on the ground under Russian command to enforce it.

[Brian Shanahan]

Why not blame biden on kamala our vise president, when you can blame trump for genocide? But I am not blaming kamala. I am giving you that all 3 are more or less the same on israel. Just that trump has a big chance of stopping the ukraine war. At least that's a promise, while kamala stands for nothing except turning a new page (from trump, aka, passing the buck, aka not accountable). A win for trump.

I'm not blaming trump for genocide. I'm saying based on all evidence it's likely to get worse under him. You have not refuted my assumptions. Please explain why you see them as even based on their statements made.

What are your assumptions on how ukraine war stops and results. I've stated mine but you haven't gone into yours other than war magically stops and nothing bad will result.

You're never going to get an honest answer out of a troll or a T****y supporter on this issue (or any other issue pertinent to the US election), because an honest answer would include the following three words "I hate America".

[Charr Babies]

T****y's plan for Ukraine, pressure the country into an unconditional surrender and if that fails put US boots on the ground under Russian command to enforce it.

You're never going to get an honest answer out of a troll or a T****y supporter on this issue (or any other issue pertinent to the US election), because an honest answer would include the following three words "I hate America".

Looks like we have another troll wannabe. Not even a good one, too obvious. 

[greenline]

A Trump plan for peace in Ukraine would hinge on him being willing to negotiate, including surrendering of land occupied by Russian troops. For as long as the Blinken-Biden team wants to indulge the fantasy of pushing Russia out of Ukraine the war will continue. But I don't think there are any signs Putin is in a hurry to negotiate, either.