[PB78] Underdogs and undercats: The Mrrshan warlords visit the world of Civ IV

[xist10]

I agree, the game seems to start the final strecht, so infra should really pay back. Especially when you can start fielding commandos. And if you go aroung razing enemy cities ?

Whats the research status ?

[Donovan Zoi]

OK. looks like it's time for another episode of "Justify Your Existence."  Here's the current map.





I'll give you the T200 screenshot overload soon.  But first, let me tell you where we'd be if I didn't accept peace until 230.


1. As it turns out, SD freed himself from Iran's borders before I could, thanks to Dreylin.  So without peace, SD would be free right now to run up and take out Yarrow, Whynil and who knows what.  He has about 15 Cuirs just sitting there because I've given him no reason to justify using them.

2. SD has chosen to stay on the path of Cannons for some reason.  I'm still hoping he decides to hit Dreylin, but if not it's still a race forward and our economy has been dragging this whole game.  And if he does, then I'll likely get the same cakewalk as I did with a distracted Gavagai, meaning I have the best shot at Dreylin's most plum cities like Kirk.

3.  I am getting tired of having weak gpt at 0% research, as it's been a plague for the entire game.  So this quick sojourn into becoming competitive will be costly, but we also have the quickest pop recovery in the game.  We'll be growing into multipliers.

4. I don't care how good Commando is if I'm running Muskets and Maces up against Cannons (SD) or Rifles (Drey just completed RP, so they are coming soon).  And we are not quite near MT to get West Point for mounted Commandos.

5. I think Magic has proven this game how much damage you can do on defense.  And he had nowhere near the promos we have available.  The plan I outlined will be siege heavy, so I will be ready when the time comes.

6. If I make peace with Magic now, all the work I've put in the last 25 turns will be totally for naught.  New Tehran is at 80%, rendering 3 of our 4 captured cities practically useless.  The city must go, and it has the Great Library FWTW.


I stated earlier that I will not start the next war, as we've seen the disadvantage that comes with it.  When the time comes, my plan is to demolish any oncomers at the foot of each city, and only then will I be free to respond in kind Commando style.  So everything I do is going to ensure that I have Steel and plenty of upgrade gold to make Cannons happen.  I'm planning on building 30-50 Cats during this time because of the overflow they provide to building projects.  That's 5100-8500 gold needed, so I really need to figure that out.

I've also got the most troops right now, which means I'll be able to monitor things to maintain that position.  And I'll likely do that by having 4-5 incomplete units queued up (hidden) in each city.  Of course I'm banking on a GA Serfdom gambit (during peace} to grow all cities large enough to whip them back down when the time comes.  We're talking 120-150 fully promoted units joining the field in 5 turns time, right around T230.

Here are some pics to support the direction I'm taking.


Powergraph

Check out what Magic was able to accomplish against a 3 on 1 dogpile with minimally promoted units.  Do you really think we wouldn't be able to fare even better on defense given the proper units?  Which require the proper tech?  Which require some dedication to the needed infra to get us there?





Smothered in Iran

Here's what I'm dealing with in Iran.  I'm 2 turns from taking out New Tehran, and nothing can really come of these new holdings if I don't.  In fact, I'm going through a 7-turn revolt in Lyae (nee Issus) right now.






I'm reduced to pillaging towns right now to get tech, but I actually did these to remove the roads so I could bring in units from Lyae and Megalon.


Tech Overview

We're really not in bad shape here, but still behind overall.




So for the most part:

So far, no one has pushed the toward Liberalism but I'll be watching.
Dreylin has PPress and RParts on us, and I have the full Aestheitcs path (except MT).
SD has MT, Nationalism, Chemisty and (soon) Steel on us.  Another reason I decided to buy us some time.
I'll have Astro on each of them soon, and another reason I went with this tech was to see if I can force him out of the Colossus benefit.  But that may also be a reason he peaced out with me.

I'm thinking of adopting Wealth for a couple turns to push Astro through.  Then I can start 2-whipping Observatories from Cat overflow, and the other techs will come more quickly.  I'm also planning a roster of Monasteries to buff culture in the cities that need it.

EP Overview

OK, so this was a bit of a laugher.  I lost tech insight during my two turns of anarchy, so my first use of Merc specialists went heavily to spies.  And despite that, I missed getting it back this turn by exactly one pt each!




Yep, SD was at 1600.      I'll be switching to scientists pretty significantly next turn, which will help.  And I'll have to favor Libraries or Theatres in some new cities to actually get a free specialist to use.

[Donovan Zoi]

Demos

My position behind the other two is mostly due to population, and Dreylin is running with a bit over 15m.  It's really easy to do C&D with only 3 rivals left!





Civics

OK, so I really only chose these new civics so I could shout "BINGO!" at 3am, to no one in particular.





City Queues

I'm gonna have that switchboard on the right lit up in green in about 15 turns. Sorted by hammers, I believe to assess possible Wealth builds.







Other Powergraphs

So yes thrawn, you definitely have a point about SD's culture, but there are border cities in the Federation and SD's Neu India that can be targeted.

[Donovan Zoi]

T200 - The City Dump

OK, I think that's it for now.  Let me know if you have any questions or thoughts.

[williams482]

The overall plan seems plausible at least on it's face, I suppose. Not feeling super confident in any direction given the chaotic border situation and apparently huge armies everywhere. How much has Magic got defending his capital at this point? and how vulnerable would it be to getting hit by SD after a capture? it does look like it will be culturally swamped by SD itself, although as you say it will free up a lot of cultured territory around the other city captures.

Why build the Parthenon in Mentar?

[Donovan Zoi]

The overall plan seems plausible at least on it's face, I suppose. Not feeling super confident in any direction given the chaotic border situation and apparently huge armies everywhere. How much has Magic got defending his capital at this point? and how vulnerable would it be to getting hit by SD after a capture? it does look like it will be culturally swamped by SD itself, although as you say it will free up a lot of cultured territory around the other city captures.

The culture situation is not ideal to be sure, and will likely be untenable if I don't get Sistine over SD.  I'm expecting New Tehran to suffer the same issues that Kholdan (Gav's former capital) is experiencing.

My stack is now 55 to 29 against Magic and 9 of his are Cats.  That means I'll average 1 hit per unit at the full 6 (which rarely happens).  IIRC, the city has Walls but no Castles, so I think the right move is to bombard while my units heal.  Bombarding for a turn will allow my extra 2 Cats to join the assault, so I may delay the capture for a turn.

Why build the Parthenon in Mentar?

It's been a pet project that I've been half-devoting myself to, and will pair nicely with Merc.  My thought is that I'll be delaying SciMethod for a bit, as it makes obsolete a good part of my plans.  Also, since I am on Merc, I'm looking to see if I can get to a point where I can have 2-3 Science specialists in cities where they work.  It's a nice case for when I do decide I want Physics -- it should be easy to get a GS or two to rush it.

Can Airships be part of my T230 defense plan?  Seems unlikely at this point but I would love that, as my promos coupled with full vision and Airship strikes could prove dominant.

And before you all ask, I'm well aware that many of my plans have competing objectives ie "you can't grow cities and run a specialist economy at the same time."  So I'll be addressing each turn on a case-by-case basis and will try to keep you all in the loop.

[Donovan Zoi]

Turn 201

I’m going to try to post something each turn to show you how I’m implementing my economic recovery plan.  But I’m going to lead with the war news this turn.


Early Cat Strike!




In a bit of a surprise move, Magic hit my stack with all 9 Catapults and, as expected, very few of my units were spared from the assault.  This actually works out fine for me since I wanted to delay my attack by a turn anyway.  My Knights seemed to take the brunt of it so I left 22 of them in place to heal while advancing all 1-movers  in two separate stacks to protect them while daring Magic to attack a stack at low odds.  I doubt he will, and all but a few of my troops will be 100% by the time I try to take the city on T203.

However, I only counted 18 defenders here instead of 20.  What gives?




Oh.  A smaller and Mongoose-ier version of Goodneighbor now exists in the city of Map – 7 units here.  I added two Amphib promos during the healing process, but I have to ask.

Do I leave this city intact to menace Marathon?  My only problem with that is it will render useless Granicus and New Tehran as well.  I think it has to go…

I’ll let you ponder this while I draft a new report to show you how I even plan to get ships here.

[Donovan Zoi]

Turn 201

OK, now for the even more fun part.  Each turn I’m going to showcase a few cities to show you things are coming along.  Here are my Top 10 domestic objectives for the next 14 turns.

Galleons to the city of Map
Last 3 city settlements
Expansion of Hinduism to all cities
Banks & Observatories in top 12 commerce cities
Sistine Chapel
Parthenon & National Epic
2 GPs for next GA
Cultural fortification across the board.
Forges in almost all smaller cities.
Slow rollout of Windmills

I think these are all manageable and I’ll be posting the results on T215.


Wonder Watch




Let’s start with the National Epic in Quayal.  I’ve been saving the last turn of a nearby forest chop for this moment.  An additional OR-fueled 36h on top of 100h whipped in.  2 turns until I can estimate a target date for our second GA.

Moving down to Mentar, I’ll be doing the same thing for the Parthenon (sans chop) by 2-whipping a…Hindu Temple?  More on that in a sec.





And in Reticuli, we have 118h whipped into Sistine Chapel.  I wasn’t thinking properly on this and whipped a Knight at 87h, going way over the whip cap.  I still got 30g out of it apparently.  I won’t be doing that again.




But some other things are going on here as well. 

Next turn, I’ll be getting a Hindu Missionary as close to 39g as possible, and letting next turn’s overflow go back into Sistine.  Then I’ll need to send him elsewhere to whip another Hindu Temple.

Before I get to the reveal on this madness, I thought I’d show you where the other GP will be coming from.  And though it heavily leans toward a Prophet, I’d really prefer to usher in a commerce boost to almost every available tile via GA over 30g in Morrig for the shrine.


First Cultural Fight

Those paying attention will guess that I’m planning the Hindu Mandir somewhere, and that place is newly-named Saurak.  Its overblown population is going to allow me to 7-whip the cathedral down to the available tiles while allowing me to fight for the Pigs and a 4f coastal tile just north of our Crabs.  I don’t really have a shot at the Clams.  I’ll follow up with a Theatre, 2 Artists and the other Hindu buildings to boost the Mandir multiplier.  This city is already pretty packed with other infra, but I will need both science buildings here as well.





Bank On It!

Fierias will complete our second Bank (after Sssla) next turn!  The basic formula is this:

~40h whip lead-in
Max out production until 110h on the build.
(possible 2nd whip for low-hammer cities)
2-whip the Bank




I’ll be doing the same thing for Observatories and only need to reach a 60h target there.



And this is only a fraction of what is going on -- in the first of 30 turns.  So stay tuned, this is gonna be a blast!

[Cyneheard]

Ooh! Plans and reporting! Lurkers' favorite things!

Well, that and war, and there's still a fair bit of that.

[thrawn]

While you are taking a very different approach I’d ask you to strongly consider at least these 2 things:

- Leave Map to SD to deal with. Now it stifles Marathon and while the same applies to the northern Magic cities, this is a very good trade. It would cost you a lot to take it and the city will be useless to you since Marathon will then stifle it. Similarly it would cost SD a lot and it’s much better that he pays the price. Also if Magic is to attack out he’d prefer to recapture Marathon first, so his units will be putting more pressure on SD than on you, and he’ll be a potential ally later.
- Leave the Sistine and use Reticuli for nothing but units until the end of the game. Those hammers will be doubled and can capture a city which is far more than the tiles you can possibly get via culture. If you have to, then at least build the Sistine in another city so you don't waste the 3 GGs and the Heroic epic.

Otherwise I'd say just build a bazillion cats and send a message to Dreylin to actively join you against SD or you'll attack him with everything thus guaranteeing he'll lose. For example fish-fish iron-iron war with SD, and then a second message just asking for all of his cities and nothing on your side. (unless there is a more standard way to communicate this)