American Politics Discussion Thread

[greenline]

I, too, am truly disappointed that Trump reneged on his promise to Make China Great Again.

[superdeath]

-snip-

You have some decent points there. Whether you agree with the sentence "  China's top diplomat, Yang Jiechi, responded with an 18-minute nonstop lecture, instructing Blinken and Sullivan on proper conduct, and bluntly stated, 'The US does not have the qualification to speak to China from a position of strength since 20, 30 years ago” Is something id like to know, but not too pressing. Im ASSUMING that you agree, while i disagree.


Biden did some real blunders when it came to diplomacy/leadership/steppingupstairs/beingnotsenile/ect. While id love a war-gaming scenario where we would see China try to be an expansive empire builder (more tension = more likely we finally step in), like its already doing in various countries it borders.. Im more concerned that Trump would be the kind of president to not care if Japan or Taiwan was invaded by China. Taiwan for many many reasons, that are hot topics for those on either side of that camp.. and Japan for the border disputes ect.

Im glad (he has/or is working on) an end to the war in Gaza. I cant quite get behind any sort of end to the Russian-Ukraine war unless its a total peace treaty with lands returned. Id be fine with (to appease Russia) various countries have a 10-20 year period where they cannot JOIN NATO, but Russia also cannot declare a war/ect. This should give each side time to find a happy medium/calm the fuck down.



Now, on any kind of recent politics or recent laws/ect.. I havent been keeping up so i cannot comment. All ive "heard" is potential talk of no longer having a overtime tax or income tax? That would get me back on the Overtime Desired List at work again.. lol

[Charr Babies]

You have some decent points there. Whether you agree with the sentence "  China's top diplomat, Yang Jiechi, responded with an 18-minute nonstop lecture, instructing Blinken and Sullivan on proper conduct, and bluntly stated, 'The US does not have the qualification to speak to China from a position of strength since 20, 30 years ago” Is something id like to know, but not too pressing. Im ASSUMING that you agree, while i disagree.

Yes, I agree with Yang. You know I don’t like to get into pissing contests so let me just say Chinese diplomats don’t talk like Trump. If they use challenging words such as these I would believe they can back it up. 

Biden did some real blunders when it came to diplomacy/leadership/steppingupstairs/beingnotsenile/ect. While id love a war-gaming scenario where we would see China try to be an expansive empire builder (more tension = more likely we finally step in), like its already doing in various countries it borders..

Border skirmishes has been explained to you time and again, the latest HERE https://www.realmsbeyond.net/forums/showthread.php?tid=9624&pid=859808#pid859808

I am completely clueless as to how you arrived at this conclusion - Explain how China is an expansive empire builder. China hasn't been involved in any wars for over ~45 years. As of 2024, the United States maintains around 750 military bases in at least 80 countries worldwide, while China has only one half-ass base overseas. You also brag about the US having the upper hand in a conflict with China because China lacks experience in warfare. Please resolve these contradictions in your mind before you answer. Soundbites can only take you so far.

Im more concerned that Trump would be the kind of president to not care if Japan or Taiwan was invaded by China. Taiwan for many many reasons, that are hot topics for those on either side of that camp.. and Japan for the border disputes ect.

It is no coincidence that China decided to showcase not one but two models of 6th Gen fighter jets flying over populated cities on Mao’s birthday, precisely when we had at least two (some claim four) U.S. carrier groups in the South China Sea. Additionally, they released DeepSeek as open-source to crash the market on Trump’s inauguration day.

Of course Trump cares. It's not just Trump, they all care, but only as long as it serves to destabilize China without incurring too much cost. We are always ready to throw our lapdogs under the bus when when it is no longer profitable. You still cling to the delusion that we are the righteous, benevolent nation.

This guy has only listed a very small percentage of the shit we stir up, If you have the stomach for it, go read US War Crimes on Wikipedia where only a small sample is listed.



We can all be excused for serving our own masters and call it patriotism, but, has it ever occur to you that we might be the evil empire?

I don’t think US will intervene directly in a conflict with China even if China decides to reunite Taiwan. Without getting into a pissing contest how one side can fight the other, all you have to know is a direct war between the major nuclear capable countries would most likely end up in a nuclear exchange. If we are afraid to put boots on the ground against Russia, what makes you think we would put boats in the water against China when you have much more to lose?

Im glad (he has/or is working on) an end to the war in Gaza. I cant quite get behind any sort of end to the Russian-Ukraine war unless its a total peace treaty with lands returned. Id be fine with (to appease Russia) various countries have a 10-20 year period where they cannot JOIN NATO, but Russia also cannot declare a war/ect. This should give each side time to find a happy medium/calm the fuck down.

A 10-20 year restriction on NATO membership is not a viable solution; it will only perpetuate a never-ending conflict. Russia is unlikely to agree to a ceasefire, giving the West a chance to rearm Ukraine. And no one finds it odd that the senile bloody jo can dictate if, and how, another country on the other side of the globe can negotiate their own peace. Biden had no exit strategy but insisted the war continues, with Ukrainian soldiers fighting to the last man. As some of you have said, 'Money well spent.' If that is not evil, I don’t know what is.

[darrelljs]

Biden had no exit strategy but insisted the war continues, with Ukrainian soldiers fighting to the last man. As some of you have said, 'Money well spent.' If that is not evil, I don’t know what is.

Actually the Ukrainians are the ones refusing to surrender, we're just sending them stuff.  If Russia wants them to willingly join the motherland, maybe they shouldn't be assholes.

Darrell

[Charr Babies]

Biden had no exit strategy but insisted the war continues, with Ukrainian soldiers fighting to the last man. As some of you have said, 'Money well spent.' If that is not evil, I don’t know what is.

Actually the Ukrainians are the ones refusing to surrender, we're just sending them stuff.  

Darrell

Putin claims Boris Johnson talked Ukraine out of peace deal.
[video=youtube]https://youtube.com/shorts/qIP3wF3zlKA?s...kucZbT4sEd[/video]
We can debate forever whether Putin or Johnson is telling the truth until everything is declassified. I would put my money on Putin.   

If Russia wants them to willingly join the motherland

WRONG
Russia wants to stop us expansion.

Peace deal does not necessary mean surrender. Still, my point sticks 

Biden had no exit strategy but insisted the war continues, with Ukrainian soldiers fighting to the last man. As some of you have said, 'Money well spent.' If that is not evil, I don’t know what is.

[Mjmd]

Ah the hypocrisy is back. I didn't miss it. I wonder why Ukraine who got genocided would want to willingly and of its own free will join a defensive alliance against the people who genocided it. You (correctly) call out when the US is being an asshole, but when Russia or China are assholes you go "its totally justified". Countries switching which orbit they are in IS NOT a justification for war. Not when we do, not when others do it. Calling it "US expansion" is definitely some good propaganda at work. Its a bunch of eastern bloc countries who's main commonality is not wanting to be under Russia control again joining a defensive alliance. US influence sure, but its not anywhere close to the subservience of Russian puppet states. But don't worry Trump is working really hard to decrease US influence over NATO. Alliances aren't important (I feel like I have to add a note that this is sarcasm).

My understanding is while Boris Johnson did talk to Ukraine, but Ukrainians were already pretty sure they weren't doing. Basically because the same reasons peace now is hard to achieve. Russia wants Ukraine ripe for another future war (can't join NATO AND they want them de-arm), Ukraine wants security guarantees this won't happen again and to keep its military. Positions need to be close for peace and they aren't.

[Charr Babies]

I wonder why Ukraine who got genocided would want to willingly and of its own free will join a defensive alliance against the people who genocided it. 

You are the master of twisting words. What a clever twist (Bravos) from “peace negotiation” to “join a defensive alliance against the people who genocided it”

Besides, that is a red herring fallacy. Whether Ukraine wants peace talks or not is irrelevant to why Biden gets to decide IF and how Ukraine can pursue them. There is no end to your logical fallacies, is there?

Jon Stewart THRASHES Biden HYPOCRISY On Israel, Russia 0:20-2:23


Hypocrisy is committing genocide in Gaza while taking time out to accuse genocide in Xinjiang

I am still waiting for your photos of concentration camps you promised that proves genocide in Tibet.

When you concoct some funky calculations and prosecuted Trump for genocide and with more severity than Biden… I think I have said enough

There is substantial evidence and solid arguments that the Russia-Ukraine conflict is to stop US expansion. There are plenty of explainers on youtube, as well in the Carlson interview with Putin. All free to watch.

Why did Biden warn Ukraine about Russia, yet over and over again emphasized that the US would not deploy troops on the ground? Imagine warning your brother that a bully is going to beat him up, while also repeatedly assuring the bully that you won't join in the fight? Provocation, maybe?

The Russia-Ukraine conflict: Same reason why China fought to retain North Korea, same reason why we didn’t let Russia setup in Cuba

Your refusal to acknowledge the facts and instead cling to your own beliefs is a clear example of willful ignorance

[Mjmd]

You realize Biden did the negotiations WITH Ukraine while Trump is currently negotiating WITHOUT Ukraine. Trump is literally doing what you accused Biden of doing (without proof).

Heh within ONE post you are trying to distract. I mean there can be multiple genocides going on at the same time. All of them can be bad. I don't disagree we are hypocritical on it, but that doesn't mean one of them isn't bad or you should excuse it or sweep one under the rug AS YOU DO!

Concentration camps in Xinjang. Don't twist my words. Tibet certainly has suffered other repressions. While probably not rising to the level of genocide its certainly still extremely hypocritical in your signature.



I said he was likely to be worse. I hope the current cease fire lasts. I hope his talk of taking over Gaza is just a negotiating tactic (similar to how he got the cease fire by threatening worse things). Its a bad one. Its a huge propaganda win for all our enemies and a lovely recruitment video for Hamas. It damages our standing even more with our allies. Even if he thinks its a negotiating tactic I half suspect Netanyahu put it in his head to purposefully sabotage phase 2 negotiations. Like how do you negotiate peace with one side opening acknowledging they want to take you over? 

Ah yes your evidence its to stop US expansion is Carlson interview WITH Putin. Neither of them would EVER LIE!!! The argument that NATO is a threat to Russia is pretty easily debunked. If it was NATO has had a great opportunity these last few years. Hell I'm sure Finland would love some territory back, but even though Russia SAYS NATO is threat they have been withdrawing equipment and manpower from that front. But Russia is safe thanks to Nukes. 

There is a difference between a geopolitical argument and a MORAL argument. If you want to argue if its geopolitically sound that is one thing. If you want to argue if its MORALLY sound that is another. From a geopolitical view I understand why Russia invaded Ukraine (although I think it backfired pretty bad for them even if they succeed at this point). From a geopolitical view its extremely in our interest to help them survive and support our NATO allies who also are concerned. From a moral standpoint Russia has no standing. From a moral standpoint we promised Ukraine support when they gave up their nukes among other reasons such as a moral stand that countries should get to choose. BTW its incredible geopolitically STUPID to go after Greenland and Canada. Its only very slightly less stupid to go after Panama. Its morally bad for all those.

You literally ignored the fact that Trump is negotiating peace with Russia without Ukraine. You have an OPINION that Ukraine shouldn't be allowed to not be controlled by Russia. You ignore facts about Russia and China because your very credible sources such Carlson and Putin tell you to. Come on.

[Charr Babies]

I am not about to search through the posts. It is enough that every time I talk about US genocide, you bring up China/Tibet as if the two are equal, just like you did in your last post.

You (correctly) call out when the US is being an asshole, but when Russia or China are assholes you go "its totally justified"

False Equivalence Fallacy
So, you have a photo of a prison. I assume you’ve posted the worst one you could find to make your point.  that's all you can come up with?   It shows a building with no activities. So what? How does that prove genocide? I suggest you Google 'large prison in the US' and make a comparison. We don't even need to go outside of the US such as
Guantanamo and other secret US detention camps. Oh wait, I'm sure you're familiar with Alcatraz. It’s an entire island, and still not one of the largest prisons in the US. Does that prove we are committing genocide at home?

Should I post a photo of Alcatraz whenever you talk about genocide in Ukraine?

Now, show me evidence of Xinjiang genocide. Not another prison camp, please.

AGAIN, my Tibet signature is a reminder of me laughing at people like you who couldn’t point out Tibet if I red circle it on a map.

…..  The argument that NATO is a threat to Russia is pretty easily debunked. ….

…. More back peddling and garbage…..
Then debunk it. Why did China fight to retain North Korea? Why we didn’t let Russia setup camp in Cuba?

BTW its incredible geopolitically STUPID to go after Greenland and Canada. Its only very slightly less stupid to go after Panama.

But that’s what we do, US neocolonial expansion. I guess the thought that we are the evil empire must have crossed your mind too.

Yes, Trump should be on Mt. Rushmore, and I'd like to propose we erect Biden statues across the country too. hopefully they will promote meaningful discussions and education about history, ethics, social justice and genocide. It encourages us to critically evaluate their past and learn from it; and to spit on. What do you think, good idea?

And YES, I'd rather place my trust in Carlson (btw, that wasn't about Carlson, it's what Putin said) and Putin - not claiming they're the most trustworthy - but I'd choose them over US mainstream media and politicians any day.

[Mjmd]

I do not in fact bring it up every time. In fact you brought it up this time. You don't even have to scroll back many posts to fact check that! As a reminder this started with a conversation about Ukraine. You then brought up Gaze and then asked me about China's (within your same post). Its amazing how every conversation we have ends up like this. Its almost as if you are trying to change the topic of conversation! Seriously its almost as if this is some kind of logical fallacy that you constantly do in every argument we have.

You realize there was also leaked Chinese documentation as well? (Xinjiang Papers is a good google search on) BUT ITS ALL FAKE!!!! SIGH. This is why I haven't put much effort into it. No matter who I sight or evidence provided if you are willing to just discount it all there isn't a point.

I notice you aren't going to address my geopolitical argument vs moral argument. There are people (although I am not one) who would argue its on our geopolitical interest to support Israel. Yes there are geopolitical reasons to do things. Its one of the reasons I would make a poor president. It doesn't make them morally ok, but it might be the right thing to do for you country. So let me know if you want me to answer geopolitically or morally for arguments. Why did China and Russia do what they did; it made sense for them geopolitically. Who was on the moral right side in Koreas case? The answer is no one for the record, but it made geopolitical sense for all parties or at least they thought it did.

You realize your god hero Trump is the one doing the neocolonial talk right? This is where I had my doubts you would point these kinds of things out or denounce them. You'll note the US has at least been pretty good about sticking by its allies most of the time through recent history.

You can just look at known facts. Has NATO directly attacked Russia while Russia is tied down in foreign territory that NATO could easily say it has a vested interest in? Has NATO which now includes Finland tried to retake land that once belonged to it (/Poland would love some revenge) while Russia who says NATO is a threat is withdrawing forces from said front with Finland and its enclave next to Poland. Are you being lied to? What do these FACTS indicate? Even IF IF IF IF Russia honestly thought NATO WAS a threat (it very clearly now it isn't, but you could argue that is hind site and not at the time known info) it doesn't again mean MORALLY Russia was in the right. Again, geopolitically I can understand Russia trying to snag some valuable territory real fast and thinking they could get away with it. So do you want to do a geopolitical argument or moral argument. Usually you are on the moral argument camp. We can disagree with the geopolitical argument might be (threat vs "I just want this and think I can get away with it". I would argue because Russia had / has nukes the threat argument isn't a very good one even at the time), but the moral argument is pretty clear.