American Politics Discussion Thread

[Charr Babies]

The Dalai Lama (I think) says there is a genocide going on in Tibet, and with the Ughyurs as well. Why? China uses the military and the police to suppress their culture, and makes it easy for Han Chinese to move in in large numbers, take control of the businesses and natural resources, get pushy with the natives, get preferential treatment, and so on

See, that I can agree and give pause to both the Western and China's stories. No doubt, the West may exaggerate to some extent, while China might offer a more measured account. The conflict's severity is likely comparable to the British massacres there. Not as an excuse for actions that might have happened or not, but China can claim fighting terrorism funded by the west. Similar to how we justify our actions. It’s not an excuse, but another perspective for a balanced point of view, considering one person's freedom fighter can be another's terrorist.

[Charr Babies]

Under the Dalai Lama, Tibet was governed by a serfdom-based feudal system with a rigid class hierarchy and limited rights for the serfs. This would provide more than enough of an excuse for the U.S. to 'free and liberate' Tibet.

There are abundant documents on the dark side of the so-called holy man, funded by the USA, especially the CIA (ENOUGH SAID). But I am not here to smear the guy, only to provide a different perspective. You will have to make up your own truth that’s comfortable for yourselves.

My Tibet signature - My trademark humor about Tibet targets people who know so little about a subject yet speak with such confidence and fanatic convictions (which seems to be the norm in this forum). This is not to excuse what may or may not have happened, nor to judge the right or wrong of it.

I may have my own opinion on the Dalai Lama and downgrade him to a 'so-called holy man' and scrutinize him closely, and have extreme prejudice against the man. I understand these emotional traps. What I can’t understand is


How does a Satellite photo of ( A Massive Amount Of ) concentration camps  prove genocide in Xinjiang?

[Charr Babies]

I am trying to work through your reasoning, and who is it good for when you say "GOOD"

So, because Israel has proved that it can (slowly) obliterate Hamas, they get to keep the land. 

I don't totally disagree with you but I can't agree with your assessment either. I don't like to get into pissing contests playing armchair generals but maybe thing isn't as simple as you say. The population of Gaza before Oct 7 was a measly 2.1 million, in a densely packed piss pot. Yes, Palestinians are losing and suffering greatly but Israel is also over exhausted from attempting to wipe off such a small population after a year and a half. And that, with Israel going no holds barred (war crimes included) with US hardware even. 

When Trump said all hell is going to break loose if Gaza doesn't take the deal, some people wondered what he meant. Israel has never spared any effort and has tried pretty much everything they can get their hands on. The only thing they have left is nukes...

Palestinians get to safely move somewhere else.

I don't think safety is their biggest concern when they are willing to give up their lives. Would Ukraine buy this kind of settlement and call it a good day? 

The abused Mediterranean beaches can be cleaned up and made into places people might actually want to visit.

Not a good thing for the Palestinians, but oh, Hell Yes, we can always use more vacation spots in the warm  Mediterranean breeze

Throughout the time Trump was addressing the press, with that Yahoo guy standing next to him, he kept describing how devastated, grotesque, and unfit for human life things are in Gaza. I was just waiting for him to point to Yahoo and say, 'Yup, this man did it. ARREST HIM" 

Perspective defines good and bad. The soldiers we honored on Remembrance Day are the same ones who killed soldiers honored by the other side

It is a good thing for those who want U.S. expansion, but a bad thing for those who just want some peace. And, not so good if you are Palestinians exiled never to return. I’m guessing most Americans don’t care—we always take war to the other side of the lawn while our own turf remains unaffected. Who is performing at the Superbowl tonight?

This has the potential to turn out as one of the worst things that can happen to humanity.

My concerns about his plan extend beyond the Palestinians' dire distresses. I am looking at the aftermath, when the U.S. owns Gaza (his words—'it is a wasteland, we will just take it). This plan, whether intended or not, is more than just financial gains or boosting Israel's dominance. The U.S. already has a significant military presence throughout the Middle East stirring shit up illegally. With this plan we will have legal authorities in the region - to build full blown military installations and control the Red Sea extending its power and put a choke hold on the entire region. All at a sudden, everything is a threat to US security.

For those who wants peace and quiet they see storms are brewing. For the neocolonial expansionist, this is indeed a glorious thing, this is

One small step for America, one giant leap for conquest.

PS: If the international community allows Trump to get away with this without taking any action in opposition, I'm moving to Mars


.

[greenline]

During the Biden/Harris administration, Israel did not have (or was not willing to use) the maximum leverage to starve Hamas out. Hamas was able to receive continuous supplies owing to humanitarian aid that was not fully stopped. They are also tenacious, we can give them that. But Trump is culling aid of all kinds now. So Hamas has a much more tenuous position if they want to continue this siege.

I don't think safety is their biggest concern when they are willing to give up their lives. Would Ukraine buy this kind of settlement and call it a good day?

Ukraine might once it learns that Uncle Sam isn't going to bankroll the war forever. And they'd be smart to.

My concerns about his plan extend beyond the Palestinians' dire distresses. I am looking at the aftermath, when the U.S. owns Gaza (his words—'it is a wasteland, we will just take it). This plan, whether intended or not, is more than just financial gains or boosting Israel's dominance. The U.S. already has a significant military presence throughout the Middle East stirring shit up illegally. With this plan we will have legal authorities in the region - to build full blown military installations and control the Red Sea extending its power and put a choke hold on the entire region. All at a sudden, everything is a threat to US security.

Trump doesn't like boots on the ground. He prefers to let proxies do their thing. This means letting the middle east fall under the sway of Turkey, Israel, and the Sauds. I'm not a huge fan of any of those, but I'm okay with it.

[Charr Babies]

Once we own Gaza, protecting our own territory is not boots on the ground.

Anyways, I wrote this more as speculation than opinion. With Trump's ever-shifting positions, between bluffs and intents, who knows? I only hope this isn't happening, for the sake of Palestinians, to preserve international law, and for the aftermath thereof... and me. I don't want to be fishing for better talking points.

[greenline]

I would hope that it does not work out with boots on the ground. Since Israel is already pushing for that land, and Americans are already stuck paying for them, it would work out better for Israel to provide the occupying troops.

[Charr Babies]

I don't think you're paying enough attention to Trump's shift from 'We would just go in to rebuild...' to 'We will just own it.' So far, I haven't seen any indication that Israel would be a partner in the takeover. To 'own it' implies it becomes part of the U.S. empire, and it makes no sense to me that we would outsource the protection of U.S. territory to Israel.

[Charr Babies]

During the Biden/Harris administration, Israel did not have (or was not willing to use) the maximum leverage to starve Hamas out. Hamas was able to receive continuous supplies owing to humanitarian aid that was not fully stopped. They are also tenacious, we can give them that. But Trump is culling aid of all kinds now. So Hamas has a much more tenuous position if they want to continue this siege.

A quick recap by Copilot. I have seen reports on this but you can fact check it with any source of your choice.

In the ongoing Gaza conflict, one notable incident occurred on April 1, 2024, when Israeli drones targeted a humanitarian aid convoy operated by World Central Kitchen (WCK). The attack took place in the Deir al-Balah area of the Gaza Strip, resulting in the deaths of seven aid workers, including individuals from Australia, Britain, Palestine, Poland, and the US-Canada. The convoy was transporting food supplies, and the attack drew widespread international condemnation1.
This incident is part of a broader pattern of violence affecting humanitarian efforts in Gaza, where aid workers and convoys have been targeted multiple times.

There have been several incidents where Israeli soldiers attacked Palestinians while they were receiving humanitarian help. One notable incident occurred in the Tulkarm area, where Israeli forces reportedly attacked Palestinians who were trying to receive aid. This has been part of a broader pattern of violence and restrictions on humanitarian aid in the region.

Although you can still argue it's not quite the maximum leverage to starve Hamas out.

[greenline]

Israel has stopped some shipments of aid from getting through. What we are seeing now is a situation where Trump can actually cut that aid off from the source. Hamas will probably not be so brave if they learn that they do not have the clandestine backing of a bunch of Soros orgs.

[Charr Babies]

And poison the water, release chemical biological agents too. Yup, you are right, there is no lower low where we wont go.