American Politics Discussion Thread

[Mjmd]

The conversation started ON RUSSIA AND UKRAINE. I've argued multiple times to NOT abandon our allies and commitments. I've said this numerous times. I want some input from literally anyone else. Have I not been clear on this? Like if I truly haven't gotten this across I want to know. You may disagree with me, but I feel like I've argued this extensively (on multiple occasions), so if people other than Charr haven't been getting this I want to know.

Simple
"Abandon our allies and commitments" is not good. 

As for "being more neutral and cooperative with Russia and China" HELL YES!!! that's the right thing to do

Still waiting on your definition of "neutral". Again, to me these two statements ARE NOT logically compatible based on the normal definition of "neutral".

Below is my clarification question on word "neutral".

You may need to clarify what you mean by "being more neutral and cooperative with Russia and China". How do I turn that into abandoning? Because being neutral means not helping our allies. I don't know what your definition of abandonment is, but not helping long standing allies to me is abandonment. Making a treaty for security guarantees and then ignoring those commitments is also abandonment. It is possible you meant something different though. Different people can think in different ways, but I hope you can see from what I believe is a logical interpretation that I wasn't purposefully distorting. It is possible you meant something different yes, but neither do I think its weird I interpreted in the way I did.

[Charr Babies]

I was really hoping to get Charr Babies take on Nicolae's post .

Darrell

And I was hoping to hear from Franky    

[Charr Babies]

The conversation started ON RUSSIA AND UKRAINE. I've argued multiple times to NOT abandon our allies and commitments. I've said this numerous times. I want some input from literally anyone else. Have I not been clear on this? Like if I truly haven't gotten this across I want to know. You may disagree with me, but I feel like I've argued this extensively (on multiple occasions), so if people other than Charr haven't been getting this I want to know.

Simple
"Abandon our allies and commitments" is not good. 

As for "being more neutral and cooperative with Russia and China" HELL YES!!! that's the right thing to do

Still waiting on your definition of "neutral". Again, to me these two statements ARE NOT logically compatible based on the normal definition of "neutral".

Below is my clarification question on word "neutral".

You may need to clarify what you mean by "being more neutral and cooperative with Russia and China". How do I turn that into abandoning? Because being neutral means not helping our allies. I don't know what your definition of abandonment is, but not helping long standing allies to me is abandonment. Making a treaty for security guarantees and then ignoring those commitments is also abandonment. It is possible you meant something different though. Different people can think in different ways, but I hope you can see from what I believe is a logical interpretation that I wasn't purposefully distorting. It is possible you meant something different yes, but neither do I think its weird I interpreted in the way I did.

Still waiting on your definition of "neutral". Again, to me these two statements ARE NOT logically compatible based on the normal definition of "neutral".

Yea well, logic is not your strong suit. You are forgiven 

I gave my take or  "neutral" against your definition a couple of posts ago. 

Being neutral also mean helping each other equally. "being more neutral and cooperative" also mean just to ease off, and still favoring the allies. Or just stop the aggression.

I don't care what your definition is. Seriously! You are good at the TWIST.

I don't care what your definition of "neutral" is since I didn't ask you if you agree or what you think. I am not interested in how you twist things.

See how I answered your question you pigeonhole me in, then you use your other underhanded tactic, just keep moving the goal post so it is never ending until you have the last word.  

[Mjmd]

So Russia invades Ukraine, what is "helping each other equally" mean in your eyes.

I swear I'm not twisting words. I'm just using the normal definition of the word "neutral". I think you are saying "neutral", but meaning something else. Like do you mean playing both sides?

[Charr Babies]

So Russia invades Ukraine, what is "helping each other equally" mean in your eyes.

I swear I'm not twisting words. I'm just using the normal definition of the word "neutral". I think you are saying "neutral", but meaning something else. Like do you mean playing both sides?

Yes I know, this is you moving the goal post. if I answer this then you would move on to demand how to "helping each other equally", AND AGIN AND AGAIN UNTIL YOU HAVE THE LAST WORDS


So how do you twist neutral into abandon, master?

Abandon is not in the list!!!

Oxford Languages
Pretty much how I used neutral

adjective: neutral
1. not helping or supporting either side in a conflict, disagreement, etc.; impartial.
"during the Second World War, Portugal was neutral"
Similar:
impartial
unbiased
unprejudiced
objective
without favoritism
open-minded
nonpartisan
nondiscriminatory
disinterested
even-handed
equitable
fair
fair-minded
dispassionate
detached
impersonal
unemotional
clinical
indifferent
removed
uninvolved
uncommitted
unaligned
nonaligned
unaffiliated
unallied
nonallied
nonparticipating
noninterventionist
noncombatant
nonbelligerent
noncombative
nonfighting
antiwar

Opposite:
biased
partisan
combatant
belligerent.......

[Mjmd]

Lets take a look at the definition.

1. not helping or supporting either side in a conflict, disagreement, etc.; impartial.

That is very much not "helping each side". Its helping neither. If we are not helping our long term allies or honoring our commitments / if you give up on your allies and commitments you are ______..... Insert word of choice. I choose the word abandon. If you have a better one feel free to float it out. I suppose "purposeful neglect" is a descent synonym that you might more agree with. Sacrifice, disregard, retreat from, forget, cut off, desert, ect. And heh I give you last word most of the time. I'll give it to you this time since this has run on a bit, but yes you've never answered what "helping each other equally means" in relation to Russian and the war in Ukraine. It certainly isn't the definition of neutral as you can see even though you indicated it was, which isn't a moving of a goal post, its trying to get clarification on what you said. So say whatever thing that won't answer the question you want I guess, that will also try to get me to respond again, and will probably have an ad hominem in it.

[T-hawk]

This is getting hilariously entertaining about how much you guys are talking past each other. Whipping out dictionary lists to try to catch your opponent having used a wrong word, that's peak internet debating right there.

[darrelljs]

I feel bad from Mjmd cause he's taking it very seriously, but if you can take it for what it actually is, this has been peak entertainment for quite some time .

Darrell

[Mjmd]

Well when your opponent is using a word like neutral and then the definition he is using and not supporting is "helping each other equally" and then he insults you because you for some reason didn't know his definition. Then yes!

[Mjmd]

I feel bad from Mjmd cause he's taking it very seriously, but if you can take it for what it actually is, this has been peak entertainment for quite some time .

Darrell

I am, but also I know. 

I was at a historical WWII days at my local historical society here in Wisconsin and a bunch of Ukrainians who were training in Wisconsin showed up. Let me tell you how weird that felt with this "play war camp set up" and then people who had been or were actually going to war. One of them was already missing a leg. Point being that for us it was fun (and I hope it was for them as well at least that day), but war is horrible and very serious. So if I sit comfortable here behind my desk and waste my time its a little thing. And if people find entertainment out of it so much the better.