Odd Demographics

[Speaker]

I've come across this weird "bug" several times and finally in a game that I can report.

As you can see from the Demographics, I'm 2nd in GNP, right? Right? But I've been by far #1 on the graph all game except for one tiny blip (where I shifted to hills/forests instead of cottages for a few turns). And by the "look test," I definitely have more commerce than anyone else (ie Maniac who should be in 2nd).





What's going on here?

PS- Sebmono, Maniac and I won an easy conquest victory in this MP 3v3 game.

[Arathorn]

I dunno. But I've noticed the same thing -- to even higher degrees (where the Demographics shows me at like 33 and the graph shows me way ahead). I think I may even have a savefile around with that, at home. The graph is accurate and the demographics wrong? That's been my feeling, but I didn't have as definitive a feel as you do, with the ability to query teammates.

While we're at it, what exactly is GNP measuring? Incoming commerce? Does it count specialists? Trade routes? Trade routes only? Multiplying buildings? Adjusted at all for costs? What, exactly, does it measure? And, do the two measure different things, which might explain why they disagree? ??? I don't have answers, just more questions.

Arathorn

[Speaker]

All good questions Arathorn. It is my opinion that specialists are not included in GNP, as I have played games with tons of scientists where I was the tech leader, but 5th in GNP. That seems impossible to me if everything is being counted.

I'm pretty sure that trade routes are not counted in GDP. I believe they are listed in the Import/Export demographic. Notice in the picture above that I list 24/0 for Imports/Exports. I am in the Mercantilism civic, so wouldn't that account for the 0 imports? My borders are closed?

I agree with you that the graph seems more trustworthy than the demographics. And I am constantly looking at the Demographics to judge the relative power of my civilization. So I'd love to know what they are actually measuring.

PS- You would LOVE team mp I think. No "too advanced" trading problems....Purely your research against their research. May the best (wo)men win. Please join us sometime!

[Snaproll]

I've had the same thing in several of my games. I stopped trusting the demographics after a while and I now rely on the graph. I keep meaning to post screensots and saves to civfanatics, but never get around to it.

[cpp1]

The same thing is happening in my current game. I'm in the lead in GDP according to the graph, but in 2nd place in demographics. I don't know which figure to believe, and I don't know why they are different.

[Zeviz]

I think the Demographics screen shows raw commerce, while the Graph shows the overall research+gold income - expenses.

This is confirmed not only by empirical observations (I tend to lead on the graph if I have top research rate and the more libraries/scientists I have, the bigger the difference between the graph and table), but also by some simple experiments:

Adding a scientist has no effect on Demographics table.
Moving citizen to a higher commerce square has an effect.
Switching to Beurocracy has an effect. (Beurocracy increases base commerse.)
I think switching to Free Religion didn't have an effect (Free Religion acts as a modifier on output), but I don't remember exactly.