[SPOILERS] Seven Isabellas of India

[SevenSpirits]

This is not going to include an empire update. It's the story of some goings-on in the north. As you can see in my previous update, there is a barb city there, Uzbek, between Athlete and myself. I scouted out the territory around it and also found Athlete's borders with my galley.

Meanwhile, Athlete sent two axes south to the barb city. I, too, dispatched some units (two axes) there. As I was the only one with a woodsman axe, I could scout Athlete's unit count every turn and he couldn't see mine. He chipped away at the barb city and I pretended not to exist.

Unfortunately, disaster soon struck in the form of almost twenty barbarian warriors, all drawn like moths to the flame that was Alien Toy Shop. Weirdos.



I decided it was necessary to recall one of my axes to deal with the problem, as I only had one covering multiple cities now. This turned out to be a good idea as the warriors spread out rather than all suiciding on ATS.

Meanwhile, Athlete depleted Uzbek. My axe would not make it back in time, so I sent the chariot. The turns went like this:

Start: 3 barb warriors.
Athlete's turn: Kill 1, down to 2. (Since he has two axes there.)
My turn: Nothing. (Since I have one axe there.)
Barb turn: build a warrior. (Whew!)

My chariot could not get there in time to capture the city first, but it could get there just a turn after athlete's capture and I would probably win the battle against two wounded axes.

Unfortunately, the next turn, the barbarian occupants of Uzbek decided it would be a good idea to join the battle of Alien Toy Shop and leave the city guarded only by a single warrior and two workers. Oops. Ah well, I diverted the chariot to meet up with my galley.

A bit later...

[SevenSpirits]

Athlete caught me on chat, first asking if I knew where the turn was, then being friendly and asking for a NAP. Dude! I offered you a NAP when I met you - not even one that's hard to get out of - and you didn't want it! And now you have half my power, take a city that's closer to mine than to yours, and you expect me to give you a NAP? Why would I do that??

I told him this nicely, and suggested that if he wanted a NAP, he could perhaps give me something in return. His suggestion was a mutual ban on settling on the other side of the barb city. Um, that's not a concession. That's me giving a concession. I said I'd have to look in-game and reply later.

I looked the next time I got the save. Yeah, bad deal. I told him this and accused him of being insincere with his talks of friendship. He replied that then I should make a suggestion. As I had taken the two turns necessary to get a better bargaining position, I did so.

OK, I got a slightly better look at your territory this turn so I can make a concrete offer. Of note, you are fairly overextended with that barb city you captured. As I mentioned, a city east of it on the coast would be 7 tiles from my capital! That city is also claiming "my" gold. (From what I can see so far, there's one for each of us.)

Here's my suggestion:

* NAP for up to, say, thirty turns (your choice). NAP meaning neither may declare war on the other party.
* You gift me 180g when one of us gets currency, as partial compensation for taking my barb city. (I will have Currency soon.)
* You gift me one of your two golds. (To prevent abuse, let's say that you must gift the gold resource within two turns of having one of your golds mined.) This requirement will be permanently ended if you lose control of one of the golds (i.e. through cultural battle) or I ever declare war on you afterwards.
* You do not settle any cities in the same row or farther south than your barb city during the duration of the NAP (i.e. while I can't defend my own territory).
* Open Borders (only required for 10 turns) (though I don't think either of us would want to cancel it)

If this seems unfair to you, please note:
- I had the ability to raze Montreal this turn, and chose not to. That's because I think this peaceful solution works better for both of us, and because I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt.
- If you don't agree, I can just take the barb city from you by force, given its proximity to me and the strength of my army.
- I'm still threatening to be quite a nuisance to your undefended home cities if it comes to war.

Any one of these situations would be worse for you than losing 180g and a duplicate resource, and instead all three are the case.

Additionally, the only things I'm asking for are things that you just got for free by killing some barb warriors. (Which btw, if I wasn't last in turn order I would have captured.) And you are still keeping the VAST majority of those spoils: a city, several free population points, and two workers. All of which dwarf the capture money and the dupe resource.

Also: I did offer you a NAP when we met. I'd rather have played it out completely peacefully, but the situation is as it is and I'm most definitely a pragmatist. If you decline a NAP, forcing me to invest in military for defense, and then don't get military of your own, I think that's a mistake.

Please let me know what you think before my next turn.

Still in peace, Seven

Here's a view from the following turn of where my galley/chariot moved rather than try to raze Montreal:



The rest of the email conversation:

[COLOR="LightBlue"]Hi Seven,

Your proprosal is unacceptable in it's current version to me. I've played my turn prepared but I'd still like to discuss this and come to a solution. I will have time to write you a counter this evening (est) on the chance you won't be playing your turn until later or decide to hold off on aggression for the moment.

Athlete
Shaka Of The Vikings[/COLOR]

Athlete, I can wait a bit.

I hope your counter-proposal is good as you have now left Halifax insufficiently defended. I wouldn't enjoy ruining your game just because we can't come to an agreement in time. Yet I feel I'd have to act as your galleys could easily remove my negotiating power next turn were I to delay.

Here are my odds on Halifax:



I did not mention the odds to Athlete. On the other hand, it's unclear whether he believed I had troops in the galley at all. I guess I'll see after the game. But man, I wouldn't lie! If I say I'm capable of razing his city, I am capable of doing that. Maybe not likely, but I COULD!

Anyway.

We had a long chat when he came back on. Here are the highlights:

- Athlete tells me that the following things occured in diplo: after I got longbows, he asked Jowy about the possibility of them both attacking the opponent in the other direction from me. Jowy declined and counter-offered that they both attack me instead. Athlete declined. They have not talked since. (I guess I'd better try to determine if this is true or not!) Athlete does not wish to attack longbows; this prompted him to try to get friendly with me so he can attack The Reverend.
- Athlete says his tech plan is (finish Math) -> Currency -> Construction -> CoL -> CS, then bulb machinery. For berzerkers! He said he really wants to use berzerkers.
- We negotiated the following deal:

* Athlete gives me 150 gold [down from 180], and only after he techs currency in the previously mentioned tech path.
* Athlete gives me one of his gold resources, basically as I requested.
* He can't settle south of his barb city as I requested, but also, I can't settle north of it. (However, I can settle parallel to it which is what I wanted.)
* NAP until turn 120. (I think, to both our benefits.)
* Open Borders while the NAP is in effect, except cancellable if the NAP is due to end within ten turns to prevent scouting abuse.

For reference, the area around the barb city:


So this had a slightly different outcome than I expected, namely that it looks like Athlete will actually end up my ally. This is probably good. (Certainly, if it's true that Jowy tried to negotiate a double attack on me, it's very good.)

So thus ends that little escapade. I think either of us could have gotten more out of the other by being more stubborn, but this outcome satisfies me. No blood was shed and I got some free stuff, and probably an ally. This partly undoes my mistake of not focusing more on conquering barb cities.

At this point I will also note that in my original message I was going to ask for 100g, but then changed it to 180 at the last minute because I remembered about that whole haggling thing. I guess it's good I did that.

Also I will say that I was pretty darn nervous after sending off my list of demands. It's hard to tell how people will react to those things! And the last thing I want is someone extremely pissed off at me, and no free stuff to compensate.

[novice]

Also I will say that I was pretty darn nervous after sending off my list of demands. It's hard to tell how people will react to those things! And the last thing I want is someone extremely pissed off at me, and no free stuff to compensate.

Fun times.

[SevenSpirits]

It looks like it's time
To post updates in rhyme
Though the diplo update
Will just have to wait
Since I'm kind of tired.



Aesthetics came in this turn, on the way to Literature. I wanted it sooner but decided a detour to Construction was prudent, as both bridges and catapults will be valuable for defending.

Literature with marble will be pretty great for me. I want all those things!

Here are my cities (in order of founding):

My capital is pretty sweet (like everyone's). In my case though I have a settled great merchant which gives an extra food, and will get another GP soon - most likely either a priest or scientist. Either way I'm happy. Great Library and National Epic need to go here.

This has been a 3-whip settler pump for most of the game, but with Iron Working in it turned out it was good for production too. An archer is en route from the capital for happiness help.

Third city, and I've kind of screwed it over recently (whipping it, and slow-building a settler) because it's low on workable tiles anyway and the settler build wasn't using all that much food here.

This city was never meant to grow that much since it has limited tiles anyway, but I probably should have gotten a monument in it. It's a good military pump with the occasional whip even as is. (Yeah, I know it has zero hills, but my other cities don't have many more.)

This city is very good. It was better two turns ago before a barb galley pillaged one of the fishes, but that fish is actually going to be gifted to another city now anyway. Anyway I had to pause the catapult build to get out a work boat replacement.

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Future site of Moai Statues. Just need to get a stone up, then I'll start on that. I have one worker assigned to it, currently about to mine the other hill. Later, another city will go on the horse. (Four trade routes.)

[SPOILER]

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A pretty darn new city (it hasn't grown yet). I chopped in a temple this turn under the mistake impression it would add culture this turn, but it doesn't. Ah well, I still need the culture. Had I had access to stone, I would have chopped in Stonehenge instead. Unfortunately I was unable to trade for it in time. Several people have stone now, so I don't think I'll get Stonehenge.

Founded turn 99. I've founded 3 cities in the last 5 turns so my workers are a bit overburdened at the moment. But this city is pretty awful anyway. Zero food resources, just an incense, desert stone, and flood plain (and not coastal).

Founded this very turn. Should have had a 5-food fish tile to work but a grass forest will just have to do for a few turns. Due to the magic of the Great Lighthouse, it added 1 to my total GNP even in this sorry state.

Here's an overview of all my territory:

And the completely foodless land that I have available for expansion:

I think I'm done with new cities for a bit except for the other one on the island.

At 0% science I make 87 gold, 7 science.

At 100%, I make -60/168.

Here's my tech situation. I also lack Meditation. A relic from when I though I might be bulbing Optics/Astronomy.

My units:

Demographics:

Don't believe the lies, I am totally #1 in gdp. (I will be next turn when I go to 100% research to knock out Literature.)

I took the graph pics after turn end because Reverend forgot to take his EP off me so I lacked his graphs for a turn. I'm still nowhere near Nakor's graphs because Jowy is dumping all his EP on me.

[SevenSpirits]

I no longer understand reality.



I have easily the lowest land area. My land contains zero grains, and my only luxury resource other than the starting furs is incense. Athlete, to take a single opponent, and one who has been trailing for most of the game, has 2x rice, 2x gold, 2x gems, 2x dye (not hooked up yet), 1x sugar (ditto), 1x silk, 1x spices over me.

And yet, since the t100 update, I have been leading in crop yield, MFG, and GNP almost the entire time. Notably, my crop yield is about 20% higher than everyone else's. What are they doing???? It's not like I am managing my empire particularly well, I'm kind of phoning it in, to be honest. Nor am I significantly behind in army.

I think someone might attack me at some point, but by now I've kind of stopped caring; I wish they would just play better in the first place instead. Seriously guys, how you you fall behind me in crop yield? My total food resources on the mainland are a pig, 2 fish, and a cow. Jowy has a pig, a wheat, a couple rice, 7 fish, banana, sugar, and a big area I haven't unfogged. Hell, I didn't know Agriculture for the first ~90 turns of the game; I've been making a lot of dumb mistakes since this is my first MP game.

W. T. F.

[Rowain]

Hm I would say a) having TGL does help with commerce and research thus you are a various important techs faster than others => can start to improve earlier than others. b) having a small concentrated empire makes it easier to improve all tiles. Had you twice the land and say 5 cities more your land wouldn't be that improved either. (Many hammers going into settlers and their escorts, a lot more space for workers to cover etc etc.)

Now is the time were a small, well placed Empire has an advantage but with time provided everything stays peacefull the bigger empires will close the gap and pass you. So the question is can you turn your current lead into a victory or not?

[SevenSpirits]

Hmmm... there is maybe a little truth in that. On the other hand, I also have a city on three opponents - only Ruff has one more than me. (And I got less free cities from barbs.) So while it's true I have lower growth potential, this doesn't explain why I'm not already greatly outclassed. Oh, and did I mention I significantly underbuilt workers? One of the tiles I'm currently working is 2/0/0, I'm not even kidding. I ran out of plains forests to work.

[Rowain]

I'm not saying that others have played perfect

[luddite]

I'd say it's a combination of the magic of India, mistakes by others, and the fact that you yourself are a very good player .

[SevenSpirits]

Summary update of the turns since 100:

I built the Great Library and National Epic in the capital. Also finally got a great scientist (after a merchant, and then a very low-odds merchant), and built an academy.

I got Metal Casting, and started Forges in most cities. Also, I have nearly finished the Temple of Artemis in the capital, Moai Statues on my other island, and the Heroic Epic.

I then teched Civil Service (mostly for Bureaucracy), Calendar, and Machinery, and have started on Optics. Astronomy will likely follow. One reason is, being able to sneak attack everyone's two best cities from the ocean seems pretty cool. I also told athlete about this possibility and floated the idea of trading some galleons for Berserkers. The other reason is that there may actually be more land out there. I tried to count the land tiles, and got a number about forty less than 737, so the two possibilities are a) I miscounted or b) there are islands out there. If it's b), I bet they will be worth finding! I'll probably make an explorer, just in case there are goody huts and no pre-placed barbs on them. (Islands of less than 20 land tiles should not spawn barbs.)

One plan I was considering earlier was to try to bulb some of Optics/Astronomy using 1-3 great scientists. Unfortunately, once you've researched Civil Service, Paper and Education start to hamper this plan. Additionally, you have to research Alphabet, which blocks the majority of bulbs in the game. So, when my second GP was another merchant, I gave up on that plan, since I didn't want to delay Bureaucracy that much.