[PB 55] Miguelito and Mjmd help Amicalola avoid a repetition of last time

[Amicalola]

Massive thanks to Mjmd and Miguelito for helping me out in this one!

Useful Info:

Playing As

Hannibal (Charismatic/Financial) of India (Fast Worker/Mausoleum)

Mjmd's Guide to Picks   

Mjmd's Guide to Forests

hammers: provided by a chop outside your borders pre-Math / outside your borders with Math | within your borders pre-Math / within your borders with Math. All numbers are for Normal speed.

1st ring: 13s: / 20s: | 20s: / 30s:
2nd ring: 13s: / 20s: | 20s: / 30s:
3rd ring: 10s: / 16s: | 16s: / 24s:
4th ring: 08s: / 13s: | 13s: / 20s:
5th ring: 06s: / 09s: | 10s: / 14s:
6th ring: 04s: / 06s: | 06s: / 10s:
7th ring: 02s: / 02s: | 03s: / 04s:
8th ring and beyond is worth nothing with or without Math.

Password

falls

Demographics Guide

https://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/strateg...explained/

[Mjmd]

Reporting as a ded lurker if you'll have my meager skills and random thoughts.

[Amicalola]

Would love them! Thanks

[Amicalola]

Mjmd, I know you have played a lot of Financial recently in Close to Home games. Have you preferred it to other people's protective? Have you found one to be noticeably stronger than the other? How have you found India (I can avoid playing them if you don't want a 3rd game with them lol)?

[Mjmd]

Is there a pick order yet? I thought there was and then couldn't find.

In any case, for the most part leader before civ. Have an early game trait and late game trait yada yada.

However, with changes first two picks should be India and Inca although I have no clue which is better although I suspect India. Inca UB providing fresh water I have no clue how to value, but cheap granaries..... After that I like financial as its going to be a bigger map. While is slower starting than before, the bonus to banks is very powerful and the game is going to go long. Also, due to map size I would tend to prioritize civs with UB more than UU.

So first pick India then a financial leader with an early game trait, hrrrmmmm. Where have a heard this before?

[Amicalola]

Ah, crosspost.

I don't think there's a pick order yet, unless I've missed it. Agree on the late and early game trait also. I'm also quite keen to try Inca for the new granary and pseudo-expansive, which means expansive is probably out as a trait pick (although maybe everyone will feel the same way and Inca will already be gone).
Other traits I lean towards than Financial or Protective (I think we definitely want at least one of these) are probably early game-ish expansion focused ones. That includes:
IMP (looks strong, although leaves me the same pick you've played in 52/54, which you might not be super into),.
CRE (I personally really like CRE in vanilla games, but a) this map is large, so it loses some value, and b) it's worse in CtH than vanilla by a bit.
CHM: I really like the new CHM, so it would definitely be up there for preference for me. Happiness combined with border pops combined with discount has to be good, and this to me feels like *almost* strictly better CRE.
EXP: Out if Inca, still doesn't look great but I'd consider it if not Inca.

If we want CHM and FIN/PRO, that leaves Hannibal (I expect to be one of the highest prio's for everyone) or Churchill (who thought he'd ever be a good pick in a PB!). I can be talked into most traits though, since I have no experience and you each have significantly more. Let me know if I've undervalued any traits here, or if there are any I didn't mention that you really like!

I suppose the other option is Wang Kon for the double economy, which would be stronger on a bigger map, but REALLY leaves us open early game.

Miguelito, are the any civs/leaders that you especially want to see played?

[Amicalola]

Is ORG more considerable on large maps with significant coastline (sounds like it's similar to PB52)? I know it's not super popular here...

Equally important to all this strategy talk: Do we have any fun ideas for a city naming theme?

[Mjmd]

With large map and cap distances I wouldn't be too worried, which again is a good reason to focus on later UU (think Khmer and later) or just worry about mainly UB. Don't worry about what I've played, its all what you want to play (that being said pick India or Inca if your in the top 2 picks)

If all the good financial leaders are good, I could see organized Holy Rome.

Wang Kong of Mali is temping. Mainly for the UB, but protective skirmishers are a thing.

I would actually take industrious over creative and just build stonehenge! (edit; also discounted forges are awesome)

I'll stop typing now and let Miguelito chime in.

[Amicalola]

I like the idea of ORG/PRO or ORG/FIN Holy Rome quite a bit, especially if the map is large. Safe from rushes (or at least likely to be, again if large) and the ability to absolutely go HAM with cities once CoL is online. That could be fun.

Alternatively, I agree that I like Mali a lot (I considered playing them with my 51 pick except Inca was still avail.). Wang Kon, or perhaps Qin Shi Huang (PRO/IND) of Mali could be fun, I like IND with them since forges can be quite expensive and it'd be nice to grab a mint basically everywhere ASAP. As you say, I'd probably prefer PRO to FIN if I went with Mali, for skirmishing reasons. Stonehenge is nice on a big map too you're right, and good god have I actually talked myself in this post into picking QIN of Mali? Close to Home is a weird drug.. On a side note, CHM/IND could be a good combo with a Stonehenge/Mint plan also, although I don't like losing both eco traits.

Alt-Alternatively, Huayna Capac of Mali or Wang Kon (Just for busted double-eco) also seem fun. Sounds like I'm wanting either India/Inca (particularly Inca to try new things) or Mali for a civ. We probably want to see the start first before we go 100% re: Civ, since starting techs. I wish mysticism was still +1 commerce, I don't think it was even that good and it would be nice to feel less bad about picking Myst civs.

My biggest weakness (I suspect) is probably poor micro, and I'd definitely like to work on that this game in particular. I might have a few questions throughout about it though.

Edit: I will also be quiet until Miguelito has a chance to speak now

[Mjmd]

Mjmd, I know you have played a lot of Financial recently in Close to Home games. Have you preferred it to other people's protective? Have you found one to be noticeably stronger than the other? How have you found India (I can avoid playing them if you don't want a 3rd game with them lol)?

I honestly missed this as I was typing my first thoughts.

You have to remember protective changed between 52 and 54. I was clearly very strong in 52. I would pick financial over it in a heartbeat unless there is very specifically another trait you want / combo of traits (ie Wang Kong of Mali)

BTW you missed Huayna Capac of Inca!