[PB 59] Donovan Zoi Reflects on Over 100 Turns (of LIES!)

[Donovan Zoi]

There, I said it.  Now I just need to do it.  

First time playing CtH, and have briefly looked over the changes.  Since we have some time before the actual game, I'll post some initial thoughts and interesting combos soon.

I may even do a tier list this game.  Looks like a decent mix of sharks and unknown competitors, and it's good to see some of the solid players from CivForum joining the game as well!

[Lewwyn]

Your first Civ choice: Spanish


Your first leader choices: Sitting bull, Louis XIV


Starting screenshots will be posted in a couple days. You may wait to finalize a choice until then. You may reject or accept any of these choices. You will have a max of 2 more choices of civ and a max of 4 more leaders.

[Donovan Zoi]

Thanks, Lewwyn!

I should lead by saying I was really hoping to try PHI and/or SPI in this game, so there's a solid chance I'm staying with Sitting Bull since both of his traits (PHI/PRO) are buffed a bit here. While I don't intend to lock in anything until I see my start, I am really hesitant to throw a PHI civ back since that is the trait I was most looking forward to playing.


Sitting Bull (PHI/PRO)

--150% GP points begs for an early path to CoL where I can get the jump an an Academy economy.  It's a pipedream to Oracle CoL as a free tech via Priesthood/Writing with a player field this large but still a consideration for me.  But what would I need to give up for it?

--I always tend to rate PRO higher than many of the other players here, but the domestic trade bonus is something that would keep from being forced to grant someone like mackoti OB so he could map me out.  This means I would need to need to put a focus on building subsequent cities early (a glaringly common issue in most of my games) to maximize that benefit before I meet civs I would be fine trading with.  The PRO trait would also allow me to bunker down safely via Hereditary Rule via Monarchy if I favor early Priesthood, especially if I decide to stick with a late bloomer like Spain for the cheap Citadels.


Spain?

Yeah I am really thing of keeping it, despite yours truly being a perennial appetizer on most Tier List menus. If I keep this combo, I'll be rewarded with cheap Universities via PHI and those Citadels with 5XP siege and the 2XP addition for water units. Barrage III cats are pretty amazing in the open field against the right lead unit, as are CR3 for softening LB garrisons should I encounter them.  Just add Barracks and Vassalage. 

The Conquistador UU would come a bit late to enjoy the 50% melee bonus unless I make a point to rush the top of the tech tree -- perhaps I can also get a Great Artist from bulbing Music or just researching it outright if my Academy gambit pays off.

As far as the opening techs go, Mysticism gets me closer to Priesthood, though that doesn't necessarily mean I am going to go for Meditation from the outset.  It would really depend on the map and if I actually plan to keep Spain. Also, I sometimes find it better to sneak in and grab Priesthood after someone gets Meditation so that my intentions toward the Oracle remain unknown.  Maybe with the no score mod, most players would just see me as "an unknown player" but I'd be getting a religion from early CoL anyway if all went well.

Fishing would allow me to get Pottery pretty early (along with the Wheel) and starting laying the literal groundwork to make the most of my Academies.  


Louis XIV (IND/CRE)

...is out.  Not interested as playing as IND as much as I like CRE (which I recently used in PB43).


Like I said, nothing is locked in yet but these are my thoughts for now.  Thanks again to Lewwyn and the lurkers for your work on putting the map together.  I can't wait to see what lies ahead 

[Lewwyn]

Here is the starting screenshot. Let me know when you've decided whether to lock in either the civ or leader or what you'd like to reroll. Confirm in the next two days please. I will be rerolling for everyone that rejects either civ or leader or both once I have all confirmations for this round of selections.

Your start:

[Donovan Zoi]

Awesome, I am going to make it official.

Sitting Bull of Spain. 

I was looking for a coastal start with Fish to keep Spain and that is exactly what I got.  Doing some mental micro, I am pretty sure I'll be going Workboat first despite all of the beautiful land tiles.  This way I can net the Fish on T10 and have the wet Corn farmed on T24.  There is a 3 turn gap to get me to Size 2 but it really doesn't help me get the Worker out sooner -- staying at Size 1 gets me the Worker on T20 instead of T22 with the loss of 7g.

And you can forget anything I said in regards to early religion or the Oracle.  There is way too much work to be done!  At first glance, I'll be going:

Hunting (for the extra Scout bonus against varmints)
Agriculture (as long as it's ready in time for the Worker; otherwise will switch these up)
Mining (to work Plains Hill) or Archery (for some kind of defense) or the Wheel (as a 2nd prereq for cheap Pottery).  And then Pottery, natch, to bring in the gold.

 I've decided to forgo early BW to stick with my PRO plan of keeping a tight core with Archer defense to minimize the risk of being attacked while I work all of the lush land around me. After the Corn, I will likely camp the Ivory before the Deer for extra production, as this capital will already be a growth powerhouse.

Looks like I am going to move the Settler 1NW as it does not change the resources in the capital cross, and adds 3 hills to complement all of the food and make this city a monster under Bureaucracy one day.  It also opens up a coastal city on the grass hill 2S of SIP.  This is why getting Hereditary Rule will be so important -- there is enough work to do without chopping anything out just yet and will give me a chance to consider Lumbermills later in the game.

[Donovan Zoi]

Question: was SoZ addressed in CtH 2.0.1?  I have 2.0 right now and it still shows 100% war weariness, which is of no value with that feature off.

EDIT: Posted in tech thread

[Donovan Zoi]

So I just noticed that settling 1NW gives me first ring access to a 3h tile. So that means WB on 8, but also extends movement to 2 on both the Fish and the Corn from the capital. With the WB overflow of 2, I should still get the Worker on T18 and have the Corn farmed by T23. So one turn earlier for the 2nd food and 2 extra gold by netting the Fish on T9 instead of T10.

EDIT: Going Worker first would be a full 15 turns any way you look at it, so I am pretty convinced that WB first is the way to go here.

[Donovan Zoi]

T0

Better late than ever, I'll catch up shortly as promised by my thread title:




My city naming convention is going to be Battlebots, a favorite show of mine with several good names to choose from via its competitors.  I selected the name of one of the most fearsome bots out there, Tombstone, for my capital.  This name will also be a nice easter egg for anyone able to penetrate my PRO defenses and serve me my last rites where it all started.  However, I am going to do my best to keep that from happening, which will mean making the most of my PRO trait early so that I can exploit all of the goodies offered by both Spain and PHI in the later part of the game.

I chose SIP since it captures 3 bountiful food tiles, as well as Ivory and eventual Sugar.  The city pop exposed some wet Wheat to the west, as well as Gold and Pigs to the north. Two plots of Incense will add to my coffers later as well.

As far as the Scout, I was going to send him 2 SW had he started from the Plains hill, but sent him a crooked 2w since he started on the city square (I think he was the one that actually exposed the Wheat).

One thing I had failed to mention though I noticed it earlier: my UB the Citadel never goes obsolete!  That is a total game-changer and why it is so important for me to stay alive for the mid-game.  Because if I have recognized this, I am sure others have as well, which places a huge target on my head from the outset.  After all, I am sure that nobody will want to face off against cities with the following during the Renaissance era and beyond:

--Permanent +1 trade route
--Permanent +25% EP
--Permanent +5 EXP for siege weapons (including Cannon, Artillery and Machine Guns -- what??)
--Permanent +2 EXP for naval units
--No Walls prereq (great for possibly whipping quickly after conquest)

This is also why the abundance of food is extremely important, as it will allow me to incorporate Hereditary Rule to give an extra size benefit to my cities to justify the perceived paranoia that usually comes with picking PRO.  But I have a feeling this is going to work quite nicely.

Last thing about the opening turn for now:  I did go with WB and Hunting first as described in one of my earlier posts.  Since both Hunting and Agriculture will both take 8 turns at present (down to 6-7 once I net the 2g from Fish), Agri will be available in time for my T18 worker.  I struggled with considering Hunting first instead of, say, the Wheel or Mining but found the extra 100% against animals helpful as well as removing the prereq to Archery should scouting unveil a pressing need for it.  I haven't decided between The Wheel, AH or Mining as my third tech in queue but am leaning toward the Wheel which will then put Pottery in the shuffle.

Next 3 turns to come shortly, along with some other insights into its players and their selected combos.  Should be fun!

[Lewwyn]

Next 3 turns to come shortly, along with some other insights into its players and their selected combos.  Should be fun!

Looking forward to it!

[Donovan Zoi]

Thanks, Lewwyn!

Turn 4 scouting report




Unveiled the SW of my immediate surroundings, adding more Pigs as well as Crab to my food sources.  This allows for another 3 food city (2 in first ring), and I will be able to share those Pigs with two other cities if I choose to do so.  I can do this with Tombstone's wet Corn as well, meaning that new cities can get to Size 2 in 4 turns and Size 3 in 7 turns if they have another decent food tile in their first ring. All without really straining the growth of the originating city in both cases.  If this is the standard throughout the map, I've got to think this is a bit of a nerf to IMP civs since much of the global Settler growth will come from food that is not subject to the 100% bonus.  It also means my situation isn't special and I'll still need to optimize properly to stay competitive.

I plan to exploit the no score mod to delay discovery of BW, something I don't think I have done before.  I had mentioned previously my interest in keeping several forests for Lumbermills and so will not have an immediate need for cheap chops.  Seems like it will work since there is enough food to support working several forests at Size 5-6 due to the abundance of food.  This will eventually allow 4 turn workers and 6-7 turn Settlers once I get Mining, but I will likely get my first Settler out at Size 3 once I complete a Warrior.

But I'll also need to be pre-emptive in my builds of military since I'll be waiving the opportunity to whip a quick defense, which is definitely risky.  I am thinking I'll be going Wheel > AH after Agriculture since I will want to locate Horses quickly in order to ensure a mobile perimeter force of Chariots to dispel any Axe rush.  Also growing Tombstone to 5-6 after the first Settler to enhance production for 3 turn Archers/Chariots.  Still planning on putting this all together and also a bit wary of the fact that by going Workboat first, I won't have a Warrior available to defend the capital until about T25-26.  I am definitely gonna to bring by Scout east from the gold area since any encroachment looks like it will come from the north or the east, with the south and west mostly shielded by water.  If anyone tries an early warrior rush against me, it would mean delaying the first Worker which will dampen my progress a bit, to say the least...