Here we go again, lets hope it goes better than the last PB. Feeling optimistic.
Josh out.
Josh out.
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Josh's Civ 4 memoir. Chapter 2
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Checking in. Looking forward to playing with you!
 When we find out the map size and our start, we can properly discuss our pick.
Ok, we have a map size! 120 tiles per player. I would call that about medium sized, ancient war is probably weak but anything aggressive after that is good, even Classical. Or we can go the peaceful, late-game route. What traits would you like to play, and what kind of game? Early aggression, a buildathon, something in between? My strengths definitely trend towards building, but I'm always up for learning together. I can also try to help you get in a strong position to fight from, and I'm not totally useless on the attack. Probably.
 An early-strength combo that comes to mind is Cre/Imp (Catherine) of [classical warfare civ] (Mongolia, Rome, Egypt, etc). But I think a slow pick could also do well, if that's more your cup of tea. A lot of people like to take one expansion and one economy trait, but I would prefer to double-down on two of either, and play to our strengths. But if you want one of each, that's obviously fine too. I'm lurking you, not the other way around.
Joshybravo963, here is your starting location. Beware of the danger of gazing into the fog, anything outside of the BFC of where you settler is can possibly change before the map is finalized.
 (July 1st, 2021, 08:49)Tarkeel Wrote: Joshybravo963, here is your starting location. Beware of the danger of gazing into the fog, anything outside of the BFC of where you settler is can possibly change before the map is finalized. Thanks Tarkeel! It's rich!  To me, this start screams IMP. There's so much food that an early granary is unnecessary, it will just lead to happiness issues, or turns slow-building workers and settlers anyway. But with the double seafood, and a 2/2/0 tile, we can get off to a ragingly fast start and leave everyone else in the dust. It would be fine to pair it with an expansion trait like CRE or EXP in my opinion, or to pair it with an economy trait (PRO, ORG, FIN) and try to out-expand the field. It's not the kind of play I'm used to, but I think we could manage fine, and at worst learning together is fun. But it's rich enough that a slow pick could also work - fast IMP is just my instinct. FIN in particular could be nice with all of the rivers. We are 3rd in the snake pick - I strongly recommend picking a great leader first, since this start will work with so many tech combinations. At 3rd pick, we are going for brute power, rather than synergy, since someone else might just snap up our synergy pick. Let me know if you have any thoughts! Random pick that I think could be really fun: Catherine (IMP/CRE) of Mongolia. We expand out to a shitload of early cities, using cottages to stay afloat. Grab an early Horseback Riding (HBR), and build an absolute swarm of Keshiks to run someone over. That would be really good practice for the early game and micro, plus the starting techs are also fantastic here. Cyrus (IMP/CHA) could be even better, giving us more promos, and the happy cap to a) work more cottages, and b) whip out more keshiks.  The nice thing about Mongolia is Aggressive is totally unnecessary, which gives you the opportunity to take another more useful trait, like CRE or CHA. If we did that, I would pick Catherine/Cyrus first, and then Mongolia second. But I'm getting ahead of myself there, it's just an idea.
I'm loving your thought process! Definitely agree with imp, however my only concern is that the trees are white so we're at the top of the map which usually means trunda? But hopefully tarkeel wouldnt do that to us and I'm sure the maps are fair.
If the choice is between Catherine and Cyrus then I think cyrus all the way! If we get Mongolia then I'm sure people will expect the keshiks and build a load of spears right? Even though I was obliterated by horse archers, they're quite easy to defend against, am I wrong? Would need 3 HA for every spear he makes. So maybe something more subtle, like India? Or Inca? Think we need a discord chat so you can teach me all the ways I'm wrong haha. And since this is a newb game I doubt any lurkers come here to learn. So will try make this thread less full of crap and more straight to the point. So we don't have pages and pages of things to read. Josh out.
The conclusion from our discussion a few days ago was that we are looking at Cyrus of Mongolia, for our pick. We think we can use CHA cottages to stay afloat while out-expanding the field, and the rush someone with keshiks. If someone takes Mongolia, we haven't actually talked about a backup (we need to do that
 ). It's possible we should have picked Mongolia first for that reason. But my instinct would be one of: Egypt, Inca, or Aztecs/Sumeria. I'm not sure if Charismatic and Sacrificial Altars would contradict each other or synergize. Inca could also be quite strong/fun, for an extra fast pick with upside if we find un-irrigated grains. Similarly, Maya could be interesting for an early non-warrior unit. Mysticism isn't a terrible starting tech with Charismatic, because you're going to want it early-ish anyway. But hopefully we'll land Mongolia. There aren't many civ picks between now and us, so I'm feeling optimistic. Edit: FWIW Joshy, it's true that old players probably aren't here to learn. But lurkers will still enjoy lurking discussion, and other players I'm sure would love to read it after the game. So I will try to keep the thread vaguely updated, and I would encourage you to as well. That said, it's work, and I definitely can't claim to always update my threads well. So I guess I'm saying report however often you'd like, just don't have the assumption that no one will read it.
Am I crazy for thinking that for CHA, slow-building monuments is a good enough way to pop borders? Or do you want to lean into growing cities tall and spread a religion anyway?
Smarter players than I have done a lot of math evaluating the sacrificial altar, I think it’s clearly most efficient when you keep a city 2-pop whipping units and regrowing from 2->4 every 5 turns, which isn’t exactly the CHA model city, but sometimes you need to whip heavily off of core cities for a timing attack or major defense, and sacrificial altars definitely help you whip lower and harder than if you didn’t have them without crippling your civ. (July 4th, 2021, 19:30)El Grillo Wrote: Am I crazy for thinking that for CHA, slow-building monuments is a good enough way to pop borders? Or do you want to lean into growing cities tall and spread a religion anyway? The first one I find very interesting, and am not remotely confident in my answer. With a Charismatic + Mysticism civ especially, I like grabbing one of the early religions and just letting it passively spread as long as possible, before eventually converting into it and a religious civic in a GA, growing taller then. I do think Charismatic is good enough to avoid an early conversion and spreading, like we did in PB60, because the main benefits early are the same as religion (happy + culture). It is very slow if popping borders is necessary, but I think you can often get at least one food resource in the first-ring of the early cities. So no, I don't think you're crazy at all! That said, I've only played Charismatic once, and that was basically my own greens game. That's really interesting info about Sacrifical Altars, thanks! It makes perfect sense, and to me that definitely sounds anti-synergistic with Charismatic. You've strongly convinced me that we wouldn't want Aztecs, from my earlier hesitation.
July 7th, 2021, 04:52
(This post was last modified: July 7th, 2021, 04:59 by joshybravo963.)
So the selections have finally been made so i guess its time to make assumptions and be horribly wrong.
JackRB and Superdeath - Julius Caesar of Khmer Good starting techs, a UB that is actually useful, dont rate the Balista elephants tho. Julius is good, imp is great and org is good, specially when captured cities have huge maintenance. Overall its pretty good, ive officially decided that superdeath is my nemesis now so i hope these guys are close to give me more reason to take some sort of revenge and fix the error of my ways in PB59. Threat level: 4/5 rekenner and Miguilito- Catherine of Mali Catherine is imp also and creative is always nice to have, mali is skirmishers are good also and UB is useful. I think great picks, these guys seem to be going for defensive strats and building high. Ive also seen miguilito is very good so hope these guys dont get too far ahead. Hope someone takes them out early. Threat level: 3/5 Joshybravo963 and Amicalola - Cyrus of Rome Great picks all round!! Mongolia would have been better but was taken just before us! I think rome is still a good pick. Amicalola made some good reasons for it, and allows us to be both defensive and offensive on the situation, and also will stop people getting any ideas about rushing us. Cyrus allows us to play imp which i really wanted to play and then char is great for those whips and frightening praetorians. Threat level: Veni Vedi Veci Vanrober and Solo- Asoka of India Fast workers are nice but unsure how much faster they actually are. I guess it means those early hammers can go into smething else but i dont think its a strong pick, terrible UB and i guess ok starting techs. Really surprised Vanrober picked India before even choosing a leader, dont think its even close to being the best civ. I think asoka is pretty terrible aswell, not a fan of spritual in single player, i think even worse for multiplayer and basically useless untill midgame where you might start to change civs, idk. Org is ok. Overall probably the worst pick of the PB, sorry Vanrober. Its not aggressive, not defensive, not even a strong economical choice, no early game traits, UB. He should pray those fast workers are going to save him. I hope this guy isnt close to me so I dont have to feel guilty about attacking him. Threat level: -1/5 Bing_xi_lao and GKC- Hannibal of Mongols Hannibal is pretty good, maybe he would have chosen cyrus or the other imp leaders if he could. But char is good aggresive trait and financial can save him once hes done conquering, mongols synergise with char leaders and really wish i would have been able to chose the mongols haha. Ive heard GKC is also very good so these guys will be dangerous and should keep away from my borders. Great picks. Threat level: 5/5 bellarch and Mjmd - Victoria of Inca Victorias financial and imp allows them to have a strong early economy , incas are nice to fight early barbs and have a stress free start, but bad UB and below average starting techs id say. Either way strong early start, strong economy and I imagine these guys will play defensively. Threat level: 3/5 JesseL and TBS - Churchill of Germany Shocked that these guys chose Germany, terrible UU and UB but good techs, did they really choose germany just for the techs?? Ethipia has the same techs but yet a somewhat useful UB and somewhat useful UU, Russia has the same starting techs and a more will be able to use their UU and UB earlier so im just confused, do they really think this game will last last until theyre able to use tanks? I dont know whether theyre crazy or its me thats crazy. Churchill is good, with protective it makes me really think these guys want to play until they get tanks. Ill be willing to bet my house that they dont get to tanks but interested to see what happens. Tbs is well renowned so I guess I shouldnt underestimate but its really hard. Threat level: Crazy/5 I will win the game obvs but in a parralel universe I imagine Bing_xi_lao and GKC are very likely to win, so i hope they get stalled by one of the defensive players like incas or mali. Josh out. |
