New game proposal

[Tarkeel]

For many of us, the most important part of picking the correct civ for a given start is the starting technologies, which can severely limit which civs are considered viable for a given start. For the maps I've designed I tried to vary up the foods available to encourage different civ pics, with varying degrees of success. But what if we did it the other way around?

I propose a game in which civs are picked first, and then the starts are tailored to make them playable for that civ. In practice this would mean that I set design guidelines for each start (which is what I've done for the maps so far), and then tailor them to fit. The exact guidelines are up for discussion, but I was thinking something like plainshill start, two foods (*) and a bananaforest, with similar amounts of rivers, hills and forests.

Foods would be allocated according to the starting techs, and agricultural for those without a food tech. Proably both food of the same tech, except for those who start with fishing.

Another option (which would also severly impact the early game speed) would be a semi-advanced start where everyone starts with all first row techs and a worker (and possibly workboat?).

Does this sound reasonable or crazy?

[Charriu]

Interesting idea. Do I understand you correctly with this:

Hunting/Mining = 2 hunting resources
Agriculture/Hunting = 2 hunting or 2 agriculture resources
Agriculture/Fishing = 1 agriculture + 1 fishing resource
Fishing/Mysticism = 2 fishing resources
The Wheel/Mysticism = 2 agriculture resources

[Tarkeel]

Close; I think giving someone two fishing resources would be bad due to workboat cost, Fishing/Mysticism would get Fish+Agri. Maybe I should make an explicit list.

[Mjmd]

Do you get better food for picking weak starting techs? I've said for a while we would have more agri / hunt starts if we started with grassland pigs for instance.

[Tarkeel]

What are "weak starting techs?" without the context of the start? Myst/Wheel with AH resources would obviously be bad, but then that's bad for anything except agri/hunt as you say. I've come to the conclusion that Krill is right and AH resources shouldn't be at starts, at least not as food. (Having plainshill sheep or plainscows for production should work out though).

Here's an exhaustive list, with what needs to be researched bolded:
Agriculture/Fishing: 2x Agri or 1x Agri + 1x Fish
Agriculture/Hunting: 2x (Agri or Hunt); most likely 1 of each
Agriculture/Mining: 2x Agri
Agriculture/Mysticism: 2x Agri
Agriculture/Wheel: 2x Agri
Fishing/Hunting: 2x Hunt or 1x Hunt + 1x Fish
Fishing/Mining: 1x Fish + 1x Agri
Fishing/Mysticism: 1x Fish + 1x Agri
Fishing/Wheel:  1x Fish + 1x Agri
Hunting/Mining: 2x Hunt
Hunting/Mysticism: 2x Hunt
Hunting/Wheel: 2x Hunt
Mining/Mysticism: 2x Agri
Mining/Wheel: 2x Agri
Mysticism/Wheel: 2x Agri

[Mjmd]

As long as map makers don't put both fishing and AH resources in the same start its pretty open in my opinion honestly.

[superdeath]

Is this an idea for a pitboss... or a sign up for another pitboss.... CUZ I COULD USE ANOTHER.

[Ginger()]

Is this an idea for a pitboss... or a sign up for another pitboss.... CUZ I COULD USE ANOTHER.

[Tarkeel]

Is this an idea for a pitboss... or a sign up for another pitboss.... CUZ I COULD USE ANOTHER.

A little bit of both, but I'd prefer a discussion first.

[Charriu]

I think it is an interesting idea worthwhile to give it a try. I think the process would be civ/leader selection first and then starting on the map giving out starting screenshots. The one thing that is a bit sad is that getting the screenshot not only determines the starting techs, but also other things. For example people tend to avoid CHA if they see a lot of happiness or they avoid FIN if they start without rivers. This aspect would be lost too. Some additional ideas floating in my head.

1. Mapmaker could produce a variety of starting screenshots and those are selected just like civs and leaders. This would have the disadvantage that players get early information about the other players. But in fairness that information is acquired as soon as you meet other players and explore their territory.
2. Similar to #1 but instead players choosen starting position is kept anonymous in their thread. Starting screenshots would not be unique meaning two players can choose the same starting screenshot.
3. Mapmaker creates starting positions, but marks two tiles with signs. These tiles would change according to the players starting techs. Problem I see here is how to handle the sea food resources.