More diplomacy options

[jhsidi]

Sometimes a wizard who's far away and loves curses / long range destruction will declare war. These wars can last for dozens of turns -- in a large world the wizard can be effectively unreachable for any retaliation. Meanwhile, they're casting earthquake / corruption / volcano / dispels / whatever else once or more per turn.

That's fine, but I think it would be a significant improvement if I could actually offer said wizards something for peace.

Spells don't work -- usually the wizards who really despise you don't share any spellbooks. Money is almost useless as a diplomacy option. I've given thousands to wizards (as a test) without budging the diplomacy meter at all. And spells and money are the only options.

A few ideas of things that could be possible as diplomacy offers:

• Break an alliance with the wizard's enemy
  
• Declare war on the wizard's enemy
  
• Maybe give away a city or an artifact? (may not be feasible)
  

Would this kind of improvement be at all possible?

[Seravy]

I already have a few possible ideas for solving the problem with curses.

Version 1 : Spells are easier to dispel while the owner is banished.
Version 2 : While you have an ongoing Peace Treaty, you can click on enemy curses on your cities and pay gold to dispel them directly from there. Probably the best solution except first you need to obtain a Peace Treaty which is far from trivial if you aren't at war. So likely also should include wizard's pact and alliance.
Version 3 : Adding a "demand uncurse" diplomacy option and generally the AI responds by asking for spells, gold or mana crystals. I don't think there should be a "free" option unlike treaties, as casting curses costs resources for the enemy.

Offering artifacts as tribute is a nice idea considering the AI is actually smart enough to use them, although I do see a problem with it, basically you get steal the AI's artifacts by murdering their heroes then get peace by giving them back to their original owner. But the heroes who could use them are dead...

Declaring war on the wizard's enemy, while it has no direct consequences, does open up the possibility of gaining relation points by destroying significant armies of that wizard. At least I hope that feature works, not sure I've ever seen in trigger in the windows version.

[zitro1987]

Paying gold to ask dispelling of city curses is a really nice idea

[Suppanut]

I think all 3 version should be implemented in some form. Banished wizard enchantment should be easier to dispel. If wizard not at war with owner of the curse on your city, there should be option to pay ransom in city screen with price depend on relationship between wizards (pay less if they like you) and there would be even more discount if have wizard pact or alliance. Demand uncursed on diplomacy screen should be reserved for global enchantments or demand all cursed in empire belong to that wizard to be lifted.

[jhsidi]

Declaring war on an enemy is cribbed from the Total War series. It works really well in those games, I'd say -- to make peace with someone who really hates you, you may need to take more than one aggressive action against a mutual neighbor. So for example if it's in the Offer Tribute screen, then it could be "Declare mutual enemy" and list out the war targets of that wizard, with two possible results: if you have a treaty it's broken, or if you don't, you declare war.

The diplomacy impact should probably factor in:
- New enemy's strength level
- New enemy's proximity to you (maybe measured by closest city?)

So that declaring war against the nearly-dead wizard with no armies, or someone extremely distant from you, doesn't score you many points. But declaring war on the world power on your doorstep will net you a lot of points.

As for curses, I wish there was a "Freya please stop casting Earthquake on me every single turn" option, but alas... peace is the only option.

[Seravy]

As for curses, I wish there was a "Freya please stop casting Earthquake on me every single turn" option, but alas... peace is the only option.

There is. Offering Tribute rerolls the hostility flag so it gives you a chance each time to turn it off. (assuming you're not in a war, otherwise yes, you need to make peace.)

[jhsidi]

As for curses, I wish there was a "Freya please stop casting Earthquake on me every single turn" option, but alas... peace is the only option.

There is. Offering Tribute rerolls the hostility flag so it gives you a chance each time to turn it off. (assuming you're not in a war, otherwise yes, you need to make peace.)

Yes, I've noticed that tribute can stop hostile actions, but is there any way to tell whether the hostility flag is on or off?

Not knowing which way it is causes me no end of trouble.

Of course with Freya nothing worked and she continued casting Earthquake so much that I started a war. She's Maniacal so I suppose the only solution to her is banishment or taking so many cities that she eventually settles. She has been continually hostile for 7+ years, sending units to harass me and more recently casting Earthquake, despite being located almost as far away as possible and of a very similar alignment (pure nature vs my life+sorc). It kind of spices up the game in a way, but the uncertainty of when the NPC is hostile, and complete lack of any tools to sue for peace even if I'm willing to make a large sacrifice in exchange can be frustrating.

[Seravy]

Unfortunately, there isn't a way to see the hostility flag, other than waiting for a curse to come.
It's probably better to keep it this way, otherwise the units the other wizards have around the player's cities won't feel threatening.
It can also mislead players when they see the wizard is not hostile then get attacked next turn when the flag switches.

[jhsidi]

I understand your reasoning and can agree that it's probably a good thing to not know if an enemy wizard has become hostile yet. What I'd like to see is feedback from wizards that you already know are hostile.

I love the "Threaten to Attack" option because it does have feedback. It's a nice gamble. Sometimes you threaten, they back off and promise not to attack for a year. Other times, they declare war. Either way, you know that there was a result.

It would be nice to see that sort of declaration at other times.
- Gave them a gift>> "Perhaps I have misjudged you. May this gift mark the peace between our peoples."
- Hostility ended>> "Despite your many provocations, I have instructed my troops to be more respectful of your holdings."

[JustOneMoreTurn]

Is it good or bad for over all gameplay if AIs fight against themselves more? If yes, I suggest that the race relations numbers factor into diplomacy. If elves and orcs hate each other, shouldn't they be more likely to declare war?

Fighting a monster stack near an AI city should be good for relations too.