[LURKERS] and mapmakers

[naufragar]

Here are the starts, in spoilers in case of accidental clicking.

And here is the minimap:

Attached is the world builder file.

Some notes on the map now that players have had a chance to realize they're in the wrong thread.

-Player distance is roughly equivalent. There's a player right on the edge, which makes it seem like the south guy has a huge amount of room. He does have a bit more but nothing more than a tile or two out of the ordinary.

-I practically haven't balanced the starts. I made sure everyone had an Agri and AH resource (and then realized they were playing a later era start, so this was unnecessary  ). I also gave everyone a plains hill and fresh water. Everything else is natural. (So I didn't remove one players 3 plains cotton, e.g.)

-I've added Bronze, Horse, and Iron where players didn't have it. If the map generated it, I didn't move it. I haven't balanced for mithril or gunpowder.

-I haven't balanced for luxuries or mana nodes.

-I've made the north and south polar regions navigable by removing two rows of tiles from each.

I've made other minor edits but not enough to say I've balanced it. (Occasional fresh water sources, turned some impassable mountain ridges passable, moved one player's start 1 tile for greater distance from other people. Stuff like that.) I'm also very, very rusty with FfH, so I can't say if I've helped or hurt.

Next post I'll have bigger overview pics.

[naufragar]

Here are some overview pics:

[Tarkeel]

Start #3 looks a bit off in what is available first ring.

[mackoti]

Cotton start is realy bad with a huge handicap i might say, perhaps get a river around those cottons  will balance situation a litle? And loks like  4 and 5 is same is this accidental or are the same?

[naufragar]

Start #3 looks a bit off in what is available first ring.

Off as in too weak? I could move the fish closer. (Start 3's also the only seafood start.)

[naufragar]

Cotton start is realy bad with a huge handicap i might say, perhaps get a river around those cottons  will balance situation a litle? And loks like  4 and 5 is same is  this accidental or are the same?

How about changing the cottons from plains and grassland?

Hmm. I hadn't realized that start 4 and 5 look so similar. They are different, but only by a little bit. Edit: Woops. Give me one second to fix. Edit: I've now added Start 5.

[mackoti]

Change that and put a river around one tile for instant conection and one more commerce maybe? From what i count that start is 8-9 tiles from the other, imagine beeing so close to sinister hunters? your game is over before you start. I find  the distances too small for a game with this start. 8-9 tiles is to few in y opinion. maybe a ma werethose distance are above 12-13 is better. Will all about the dude getting the  the best starting units and go for the kill. I realy want to see alonger game. This will  finish fast...., under 80 turns as i know Auror and q going for the kill

[naufragar]

Alright, I've modified the northern start:

-I've moved the start a couple tiles back and strengthened the cotton tiles by turning them into grasslands and giving them river commerce.
-I've adjusted a couple of the resources as well as making room for one more city if the player settles in place. (I turned 1W of the iron from a peak to a hill and moved the clam 1W as well).

I know the power of Octopus Overlords, so here are pretty much the only lakes on the map:

There are no other lakes to speak of on the map, although everybody has coastline. These lakes will form the border between two players. (You can check the minimap pic in the first post.) I'll heed people's advice if this patch of water is gamebreaking.

The bigger problem is the one that Mackoti raised. When I rolled this map, I wasn't thinking about the late era start. People will start with the first couple rows of techs already researched. That plus the 11-12 tile distance and the 4-move settler means that we could see players rush into each other very quickly. I've given the map dimensions and amount of land tiles, so players should be aware, but if they don't roll their own maps, it could be a surprise. Unfortunately, there's no easy way to fix that without rolling a whole new map. But, honestly, I think that 4 move settler just breaks every attempt at balance. Even 14 tile distances can get shortened to 8-10 by unlucky settler moves (as happened in EitB 54 with Mackoti and Dave). As somebody pointed out, players will likely be in anarchy for their first turn, which incentivizes scouting with the settler.

Bottom line, I don't think it's possible to balance around a 7 move settler (4-move first turn in anarchy, 3-move before found). I'd have to place the starts extremely far and players don't seem to want that (and I don't think if they did want it, they'd end up happy with it).

So the map is ready essentially ready. But with that caveat that the settings might lead to a very rush-heavy game.

[Tarkeel]

Given your caveats (and my lack of detailed knowledge on the modmod), I agree with what you said. You could ask to force settle in place, but that might make them start thinking too much.

[mackoti]

I think we can do the setler to be usual one and releave the full bfc. so no incentve to move. I meanno vison on it and just 2 moves. Hapened n games before.