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[PB70] Map-making thread

As penance for killing the previous attempt of this diplo-game, I volunteered to make the replacement map.
Playing: PB74
Played: PB58 - PB59 - PB62 - PB66 - PB67
Dedlurked: PB56 (Amicalola) - PB72 (Greenline)
Maps: PB60 - PB61 - PB63 - PB68 - PB70 - PB73 - PB76

There are two kinds of people in the world: Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data
Reply

The overall map shape is a twisting wrapping band, where everyone has land-neighbors to the north and south, and water neighbors to the east and west, ensuring reachability for everyone. Everyone gets two islands (on separate coasts); one with stone and the other with jungled gems, while marble is on midpoint islands. Note that there is no astro-land, and no feasible way to add it without heavy modification to the coasts. Astronomy should still be a priority here though.

The northern river is more or less mirrored for everyone, while the south is more diverse. There's a copper and iron in each N/S direction, and horses in a slightly awkward spot. Aluminum, oil and uranium are more or less guaranteed, while coal is triped in each border region. All in all it's one of my lusher maps, but I think it will be good for a diplo game.

"Guaranteed" Luxuries:
Ivory (near capital)
Gold (first ring)
Gems (jungled offshore)

Competitive calendar luxuries at the midpoints:
Spices forest
Dyes jungle
Incense desert
Sugar jungle
Silks forest

Unused luxuries (in order of likelyhood of adding):
Wines
Whales
Furs
Silver



Overview of each area; note that they don't link up alphabetically over land but over water. The small lakes are the midpoints.











Novice's maptool is rather pleased too:
Start A: 13633,2 total land quality.
Start B: 13468,8 total land quality.
Start C: 12627,1 total land quality.
Start D: 13005,2 total land quality.
Start E: 13271,0 total land quality.

Total map unfairness (standard deviation in weighted land quality): 794

Player 0
Zara_yaqob of Mali
146 land tiles.
(103 grass, 36 plains, 7 deserts, 0 tundra, 0 snow. 22 forests, 16 jungles, 4 flood plains, 0 oasis. 37 hills.)
13633,2 total land quality.
57,52 average land quality.
602,0 total food potential.
2,54 food per non-ocean tile.
186,0 total hammer potential.
0,78 hammers per non-ocean tile.
454,0 total commerce potential.
91 coastal tiles.
79 ocean tiles.

15 strategic resources (1 stone, 1 marble, 2 oil, 2 copper, 1 ivory, 2 iron, 1 uranium, 3 coal, 1 aluminum, 1 horse).
6 happy resources (1 spices, 1 ivory, 1 gold, 1 gems, 2 dye).
27 food resources (5 fish, 2 cow, 1 pig, 4 clam, 2 sheep, 2 corn, 2 deer, 3 banana, 2 rice, 3 crab, 1 wheat).
28 health resources (5 fish, 2 cow, 1 pig, 1 spices, 4 clam, 2 sheep, 2 corn, 2 deer, 3 banana, 2 rice, 3 crab, 1 wheat).

----

Player 1
Churchill of Netherlands
145 land tiles.
(96 grass, 42 plains, 7 deserts, 0 tundra, 0 snow. 30 forests, 5 jungles, 4 flood plains, 0 oasis. 38 hills.)
13468,8 total land quality.
57,07 average land quality.
581,5 total food potential.
2,46 food per non-ocean tile.
195,0 total hammer potential.
0,83 hammers per non-ocean tile.
468,0 total commerce potential.
91 coastal tiles.
80 ocean tiles.

15 strategic resources (3 coal, 2 copper, 1 aluminum, 1 horse, 2 oil, 2 iron, 1 stone, 1 marble, 1 ivory, 1 uranium).
6 happy resources (1 gems, 2 silk, 1 gold, 1 sugar, 1 ivory).
26 food resources (2 wheat, 3 clam, 4 deer, 4 crab, 2 cow, 1 corn, 5 fish, 1 pig, 1 sugar, 2 sheep, 1 banana).
26 health resources (2 wheat, 3 clam, 4 deer, 4 crab, 2 cow, 1 corn, 5 fish, 1 pig, 1 sugar, 2 sheep, 1 banana).

----

Player 2
Victoria of Viking
142 land tiles.
(76 grass, 47 plains, 19 deserts, 0 tundra, 0 snow. 29 forests, 5 jungles, 9 flood plains, 1 oasis. 32 hills.)
12627,1 total land quality.
54,19 average land quality.
563,0 total food potential.
2,42 food per non-ocean tile.
182,0 total hammer potential.
0,78 hammers per non-ocean tile.
456,5 total commerce potential.
91 coastal tiles.
77 ocean tiles.

15 strategic resources (1 stone, 1 marble, 2 oil, 2 copper, 1 uranium, 2 iron, 3 coal, 1 aluminum, 1 ivory, 1 horse).
6 happy resources (1 dye, 1 gold, 1 ivory, 1 gems, 2 incense).
24 food resources (5 fish, 1 pig, 2 cow, 3 crab, 2 sheep, 3 wheat, 1 corn, 2 deer, 1 banana, 4 clam).
24 health resources (5 fish, 1 pig, 2 cow, 3 crab, 2 sheep, 3 wheat, 1 corn, 2 deer, 1 banana, 4 clam).

----

Player 3
Qin_shi_huang of Korea
143 land tiles.
(97 grass, 39 plains, 7 deserts, 0 tundra, 0 snow. 29 forests, 4 jungles, 4 flood plains, 0 oasis. 37 hills.)
13005,2 total land quality.
56,30 average land quality.
568,0 total food potential.
2,46 food per non-ocean tile.
189,0 total hammer potential.
0,82 hammers per non-ocean tile.
442,5 total commerce potential.
88 coastal tiles.
80 ocean tiles.

15 strategic resources (1 stone, 1 marble, 2 oil, 2 copper, 2 iron, 3 coal, 1 uranium, 1 aluminum, 1 ivory, 1 horse).
6 happy resources (1 silk, 1 gold, 1 ivory, 1 gems, 2 spices).
20 food resources (1 pig, 2 cow, 4 fish, 2 wheat, 1 sheep, 3 crab, 2 banana, 1 deer, 1 corn, 3 clam).
22 health resources (1 pig, 2 cow, 4 fish, 2 wheat, 1 sheep, 3 crab, 2 banana, 1 deer, 1 corn, 3 clam, 2 spices).

----

Player 4
Willem_van_oranje of Native_america
149 land tiles.
(98 grass, 40 plains, 11 deserts, 0 tundra, 0 snow. 24 forests, 16 jungles, 6 flood plains, 0 oasis. 35 hills.)
13271,0 total land quality.
54,61 average land quality.
619,0 total food potential.
2,55 food per non-ocean tile.
180,0 total hammer potential.
0,74 hammers per non-ocean tile.
467,0 total commerce potential.
94 coastal tiles.
84 ocean tiles.

15 strategic resources (1 stone, 2 iron, 2 oil, 1 marble, 2 copper, 1 horse, 1 uranium, 3 coal, 1 aluminum, 1 ivory).
6 happy resources (1 incense, 1 ivory, 1 gold, 1 gems, 2 sugar).
26 food resources (3 clam, 6 fish, 3 sheep, 1 pig, 1 wheat, 3 crab, 2 banana, 2 deer, 2 rice, 1 corn, 2 sugar).
26 health resources (3 clam, 6 fish, 3 sheep, 1 pig, 1 wheat, 3 crab, 2 banana, 2 deer, 2 rice, 1 corn, 2 sugar).
Playing: PB74
Played: PB58 - PB59 - PB62 - PB66 - PB67
Dedlurked: PB56 (Amicalola) - PB72 (Greenline)
Maps: PB60 - PB61 - PB63 - PB68 - PB70 - PB73 - PB76

There are two kinds of people in the world: Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data
Reply

There is a plainshill sheep S of the marble on all of the midpoint islands, but I'm considering removing it to placate Superdeath.
Playing: PB74
Played: PB58 - PB59 - PB62 - PB66 - PB67
Dedlurked: PB56 (Amicalola) - PB72 (Greenline)
Maps: PB60 - PB61 - PB63 - PB68 - PB70 - PB73 - PB76

There are two kinds of people in the world: Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data
Reply

I think that start C might be a bit browner than the other (it's the one I made first, and spent most time on), hence the slightly lower score. I should probably even out some more plains for the other starts.

I also see that the midpoint S of start D has less rivers than the others.
Playing: PB74
Played: PB58 - PB59 - PB62 - PB66 - PB67
Dedlurked: PB56 (Amicalola) - PB72 (Greenline)
Maps: PB60 - PB61 - PB63 - PB68 - PB70 - PB73 - PB76

There are two kinds of people in the world: Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data
Reply

I forgot to add the map itself, if anyon wants to take a closer look.


Attached Files
.zip   PB70-v0.zip (Size: 9.72 KB / Downloads: 1)
Playing: PB74
Played: PB58 - PB59 - PB62 - PB66 - PB67
Dedlurked: PB56 (Amicalola) - PB72 (Greenline)
Maps: PB60 - PB61 - PB63 - PB68 - PB70 - PB73 - PB76

There are two kinds of people in the world: Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data
Reply

I've done a quick T50 play for all five starts to get a better feel, and in short they don't feel too lush. If anything, the starts are quite commerce limited, giving fishing civs a bonus. The areas are also low on forests, so I'm thinking of adding a few, both at the capital and sprinkled. The southern areas mostly need some more plains as well.

There's also two other changes I want to make: Every start has a forested plainshill N-NW of the start, which they can settle on to gain floodplains instead. I think I'll change every area to have another food reached from that spot (like Area C), and make sure bananforest can't be reached. Not worried about the seafood, as it can't be improved from there.

For those that settle in place, I want to make a more intriguing choice on how to claim the floodplains: The deserthill which will be a huge commerce city long term, or add a fish on the rivermouth. Might have to move some other seafood for that to work though.

Scouting could prove to be an issue here. There's no obvious point at which you turn around, but it's vital to map out the inner ring cities. If you do scout deep, it's easy to be fooled by the shattered mirroring, especially in the south and midpoints. Lastly, the second border pop (T51 at the latest) will seal of access without war or open borders.


Start D might need some slightly better inner ring cities to the south, and probably move the deer at the gold W.
Playing: PB74
Played: PB58 - PB59 - PB62 - PB66 - PB67
Dedlurked: PB56 (Amicalola) - PB72 (Greenline)
Maps: PB60 - PB61 - PB63 - PB68 - PB70 - PB73 - PB76

There are two kinds of people in the world: Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data
Reply

*taps mic* Is this thing on? Anyways, I went ahead and made the changes I talked about yesterday.

Changelog V1
Marble islands: Changed the hills to grass, and sheep to pig
Jungle islands: Removed the hills, added bananas
All starts got two more forests

Area A:
Added forests, plains and hills
Moved the stoney island fish and clam
Changed clam 5N to dry wheat 4N
Moved northern iron to the west

Area B:
Added forests, plains and hills
Changed clam 5N to dry wheat 4N
Moved the stoney island fish and added crab
Moved northern iron to the west

Area C:
Added some forests, plains and hills
Remvoved an extra rivertile at capital
Moved the stoney island fish and crab
Changed forested grassdeer 4N to unforested plains
Moved northern iron to the west

Area D:
Moved bananforest
Moved the stoney island fish and added clam
Added plains deer 4N
Moved northern iron to the west
Slight alteration to resources in the south
Moved gold-deer W
Added minor river in S

Area E:
Moved the stoney island fish and added clam
Added plains deer 4N1W
Added some forests and plains












NoviceTool didn't really register the changes that much:
Total map unfairness (standard deviation in weighted land quality): 725
Start A: 13741,2 total land quality.
Start B: 13242,9 total land quality.
Start C: 12923,0 total land quality.
Start D: 13745,1 total land quality.
Start E: 13194,4 total land quality.

It still ranks start D as the best, which was the one I felt was hardest to play out.


Attached Files
.zip   PB70-v1.zip (Size: 9.41 KB / Downloads: 2)
Playing: PB74
Played: PB58 - PB59 - PB62 - PB66 - PB67
Dedlurked: PB56 (Amicalola) - PB72 (Greenline)
Maps: PB60 - PB61 - PB63 - PB68 - PB70 - PB73 - PB76

There are two kinds of people in the world: Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data
Reply

I've not looked closely for balance or anything, but a random thing I noticed:  As far as I can tell, a canal is possible across the mainland in exactly one place:  Through Start B's seafood lake.  Probably either more canal options should be added or the land and water around start B should be rearranged to prevent this.  (The canal would consume two riverside grasslands, but they could be swapped between farm (or watermill) and fort as needed given enough worker labor and planning.) Even though the moebius sea connects to both sides anyway, a canal can help a lot with fleet logistics....
Reply

Thanks Ref, that's exactly the kind of feedback I need as I did not intend for the band to be canal-able. However, the midpoint lakes are also possible if you settle them just right with a city 1S2W of the lake:


(Added a extra pic, since these areas aren't that easy to decipher on the area pics)
These canals are in the most contested territory on the map, so it's not certain the same player would control all the necessary tiles, but the start B Canal is also not without issues, but moving it 1N should fix it without adding other issues I think.
Playing: PB74
Played: PB58 - PB59 - PB62 - PB66 - PB67
Dedlurked: PB56 (Amicalola) - PB72 (Greenline)
Maps: PB60 - PB61 - PB63 - PB68 - PB70 - PB73 - PB76

There are two kinds of people in the world: Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data
Reply

The canal in your screenshot above does not work. The problem is that boats cannot enter the city off the coast. Start B is indeed the only canal on the map. This has to be fixed.

Otherwise I have only minor nitpicks:
Start C horses do not have convenient other than shared cpaital food. (unlike other horse cities)
Similarly, Start C and E copper cities are weaker than those of other starts. (did not really look if the start C/E have other advantages though)
Sugars are more likely to go to the same faction (NE one) while other calendar resources are likely to be split.
Desert on Incense is a bit uncharitable considering other factions get grassland on theirs. (Yes, those have jungle, however IW needed for gems anyway.) Maybe make them plains tiles?
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