[Eitb spoilers] Miguelito's fortune hangs on a thread

[Miguelito]

Ref, thanks for writing all those words with all the details.
Yes please let's pick as you laid it out.  please only natural leader/civ combos. 

Anybody feel like dedlurking?

[xist10]

is all I have.

[RefSteel]

Have fun with this one - I hope it turns out to be worth the wait!

Starting screenshot:

And your first set of civ+leader choices:
Falamar (Expansive/Charismatic) of the Lanun (Cartography OR Fishing OR Hunting)
Rivanna (Organized/Summoner) of the Svartalfar (Animal Husbandry OR Calendar)
Valledia (Organized/Arcane/Ingenuity) of the Amurites (Mysticism)

Please post here in your thread which of these three combinations you want OR post here that you'd like to throw them all back and get a new set of three. Once you've made a selection, please also post here which of that combo's possible free techs you want to start with if there's a choice to be made. The civ + leader choices will all be posted in the tech thread once everybody has selected one (so maybe not until after "round 3") but the tech choice won't be made public.

[Miguelito]

thanks Ref!
I think that start is richer than anything I've ever seen in an MP game, whoa.
My gut feeling is Amurites, get to magic super quick on the advanced start and all those god tier tiles and never top laughing. There seems to be coast by the cow, but this is still no Lanun start, as I see it. I've played Svarts before, although that was geared towards the recon line rather than summons, but I can't imagine them being better at magic than Amurites.
I have to look in game what exactly all those choices mean actually, but if it's more or less what I think it is then I'm pretty sure we take Amurites. Ginger is also on board

[Miguelito]

ya, we're picking Amurites, lock that in

[DaveV]

Anybody feel like dedlurking?

Since yours is the first thread I read, I'll apply for the job.

I haven't been following the setup; do you get an extra tech? Is it a balancing attempt (AH or Calendar seems much stronger than Mysticism)?

[Miguelito]

Great to have you!
Ginger is also on board, just being lazy with posting on the forums, but having you on the team we should keep discussion here

We are getting all the basic start techs (as far as I know, Agriculture, Crafting, Ancient Chants, Exploration). On top of that, one 2nd row tech that could be researched from our "natural" starting tech. Given that Amurites' Ancient Chants only leads to Mysticism, with Education needing something on top (Crafting?), we don't have a choice. But I suppose God King from t0 is fine (edit: no it's freaking great, we make the worker at 9 hpt at size 1, so he comes out after 7 turns instead of 9, and that is counting the revolt ) .

You joining even motivated me to make a sandbox, however attaching it here somehow isn't working... I'll send it to you by mail.

What to make of this start? I don't really have an idea yet, but the intuitive approach is

• corn
  
• sheep
  
• cow
  
• gold
  
• road
  

-> the first point of contention is if gold has to be moved up. Arguably we could leave the sheep for latest. I know that Dave loves to produce a lot of warriors, and even though they are nerfed here (can't use bronze weapons), we are playing with lairs and everything, so it will certainly be a good idea to have a number of them, which the cow will help with while growing.

Regarding the tech path, I suppose

• AH
  
• Mining
  
• Education?
  
• Hunting for the ivory??
  
• Calendar, if only for Agrarianism??
  
• Knowledge of the Ether
  
• Necromancy
  
• Warfare
  

Is something like a plan? Very straightforward. Meanwhile get at least one Great Sage for the Sorvery bulb. Would we maybe want to revolt to Pacifism on the first turn, together with God King?
The worker techs with question marks depend of course on what we'll be scouting.

Do you guys see any chance of us moving off that starting hill? I at least can't think of any scenario where we would.

[RefSteel]

We are getting all the basic start techs (as far as I know, Agriculture, Crafting, Ancient Chants, Exploration). On top of that, one 2nd row tech that could be researched from our "natural" starting tech. Given that Amurites' Ancient Chants only leads to Mysticism, with Education needing something on top (Crafting?), we don't have a choice.

All correct. (I believe Education's second tech requirement is Agriculture, but that doesn't make a difference here.) Note each player also starts with a free Worker, just like last game; the only roll-backs were the second-column techs.

[Miguelito]

first shot:


Turns out tech costs are huge (but we might get something from a hut).
I ran Pacifism and got a ~t20 Elder Council, so we have 40/67 GPP into the first GS already. Pacifism's +50% is of course a bit squandered on the 3GPP, but I think the second GS will cost 167, so the boost is helpful, and with the Mage Guild we'll be able to hire a second GS.

Mining just finished. With the gold mine KotE is ~12 turns, and assuming the second city gives us more ressources to hook, I see little reason not to go straight for it. That 3 turns into a farm should probably some useful road. Moving around that sheep was very awkward, for what it's worth.

However I just looked up EitB 55, and there we had a settler by t17, and by t30 we were dying already . While having all the worker techs though. Still this might all be too slow. Need to sim a fast settler start next. With GK even the corn farm does little to help though, could just go straight size 1 settler at 9hpt. The main reason not to is that the second city would be unconnected and have no good tiles, and no GK bonus.

Ok a size 2 settler comes out eot 23, so 7 turns earlier (Quick speed!) but with just one additional warrior, and no Elder Council, so Mining comes significantly later. Looks like an issue of foodhammers vs. commerce, with the potential gain in commerce being very high thanks to GPP and the gold mine.

[Miguelito]

We are getting all the basic start techs (as far as I know, Agriculture, Crafting, Ancient Chants, Exploration). On top of that, one 2nd row tech that could be researched from our "natural" starting tech. Given that Amurites' Ancient Chants only leads to Mysticism, with Education needing something on top (Crafting?), we don't have a choice.

All correct. (I believe Education's second tech requirement is Agriculture, but that doesn't make a difference here.)  Note each player also starts with a free Worker, just like last game; the only roll-backs were the second-column techs.

oops, now I remember how we got the quick settler in EitB 55, and ok I have to redo that whole sandbox . Makes the GK thing a bit less awesome though