[NO PLAYERS] (LV+)IIIrd Time Lucky - Map-Making and Lurker Thread

[RefSteel]

I'm posting this as early as I can in the hope that there'll be time for other lurkers to comment at their liesure. First, a shot of what the map won't look like:

[EDIT: Added spoiler tags so it'll be easy to scroll past it and the relevant-to-this-game info isn't visible in a way that a misclick-and-glance will reveal it anyway.]

   

That was LVII, and I'm still kind of sad we didn't get to see it play out, although early map trading did already render some of the fun of exploration moot. I'm including it here partly because I want to create a map with a different feel and shape, but with some of the same advantages that one had. We'll see how it goes! Actual stuff for this game next!

[RefSteel]

So here's a first pass on the six starting positions.  These are very rough:  I basically just glanced at them to make sure I mostly liked what I saw, but there will certainly be changes needed.  I expect I'll have missed some obvious and important stuff, and am hoping someone can point some of it out to me before I go too far with what I've got!

Note the starts are not all going to be equivalent, even when they're finished.  The main things I'm aiming for are:
1) The player sees the start will be excited about playing it.
2) None of the starts will be clearly stronger or weaker than any of the others.  If it's debatable, and there are enough compensating advantages and disadvantages, that's okay with me - but I'd appreciate hearing both sides (of the "debate" that makes it debatable) anyway, especially if you think the compensations don't add up to starts that are close enough in quality for fairness and fun.

(And again, at this stage, if these are close to balanced, I'll commend either my good fortune or my subconscious brain; I haven't yet run any numbers or looked at them in any depth at all!)

[EDIT: Superseded! See current start screenshots below.]

[RefSteel]

Okay, as expected, the mostly-random starts were ... not well balanced. I tried to make them "close enough" or at least fun and playable and not-too-overpowered while retaining their unique character. It's very possible I missed something though, especially as I still don't really know how to balance for EitB, so any opinions would be helpful! The new screenies:

Start A:

   

Start B:

   

Start C:

   

Start D:

   

Start E:

   

Start F:

   

[Qgqqqqq]

What's the remit for the map? How much balance are they expecting?

My main feedback is that in FFH2, even with the slightly boosted starts, balancing commerce resources is pretty important, and A and B don't fit with the rest of the pack - Reagants are somewhat meh, but forest means you need two level 2 techs to get to them, Gems requiring moving. I also tend to think that Gems (/Furs) are inherently inferior because the Calendar line is so strong, and wines gives full flexibility to pick whichever second-tier tech you want. (Gold is an exception because the strength of the tile lets you catch up.)

[RefSteel]

Thanks for the tips as always, Q!

What's the remit for the map? How much balance are they expecting?

Well, this is what I posted with the settings that everyone said okay to in the sign-up thread:

starts (and map in general) non-mirrored and with absolutely no promise of equality, but with attempts to at least balance things to the point where any start is hopefully fun to play!

So that leaves pretty broad lattitude, but I'd like to balance things as well as I can without making all of them feel too similar.

Good points on commerce and the consequences for starts A&B.  So in those cases:

A:  If I move the gems to the river grass hill NNW of the start (and say move the plains cow out to the easternmost plains tile shown, out of the BFC, to "compensate") do you think that would be enough, or is a gems tile too weak even on a river since Mining is needed?  E.g. I could give the start a river dye instead if that would be better.

B:  Would moving the forests off (both of) the reagents be enough to bring this start into line with the others?  If not, I could change one or both to wines.

Any other comments or suggestions on the starts?