MOO2 - A nostalgic game

[haphazard1]

Inspired by WingsofMemory's recent poll on favorite MOO games, I loaded up MOO2 for the first time in  probably 20 years. Time for some nostalgia!

After a lot of turns (I had forgotten just how slow the early part of a MOO2 game is; you have so little production early on), things are going pretty well. (My empire is in green, with Sol being in the south center.)

I am playing a custom race with the omniscience trait, so I can see the entire galaxy. I have out-expanded all the AIs, with the Elerians having the most systems of the AIs. The bears and lizards have not expanded at all beyond their initial starting colony ship. The Psilons have managed to claim one additonal system beyond their starting pair.

Some systems have multiple colonizable worlds, though, so the AIs do have a few more planets than raw system count would indicate. Still, they have not expanded well, except the Elerians. I have 12 worlds total across my six colonized systems. (Tao is just an outpost, to get range to reach the east.)

All the food production in my empire is coming from my home world and the single terran class planet I have managed to find in the galaxy that was not defended by space monsters. Recently discovered terraforming tech is going to fix this problem soon, though, as I transform several planets into more habitable environments.

I had strong relations with everyone except the Sakkra (no contact), but recently got framed for spying three times in five turns. This ruined relations with the Psilons, who are now angry with me. This is likely to lead to trouble, as the brains are technologically quite advanced. They have been amassing a sizable fleet, so I may have my first war to deal with soon. I have star bases to defend most of my worlds, but not much of a fleet. I will need to build more ships ASAP.

Overall this has been a fun re-visit to a past favorite. MOO2 is a very enjoyable game, despite being very different from classic MOO. The pacing is a lot slower; I am not sure of the exact turn count, but it is probably well over 300 turns by now. Most MOO games would already be long over, and wars would have broken out within the first 70 or so turns (if not earlier). Colonization is just very, very slow with colony ships costing 500 production and a good planet producing maybe 15-20 hammers per turn. All of my colony ships have been built at my home world, with each generally being a 25+ turn build. Things are finally speeding up as I get the second tier of production-boosting buildings constructed. My being incredibly rusty and having forgotten a lot of details of how to optimize everything probably has played a part in the slow pace as well.

Once I finish this nostalgia game, I am planning to give Interstellar Space: Genesis a try. It is a modern take on the MOO2 concept, with a bunch of changes and new mechanics added. I am curious to see how it plays. I will post my thoughts once I have played a game or two. Thanks to WingsofMemory for the poll and inspiring this nostalgia tour.

[WingsofMemory]

That was a fun read, thanks for posting it! I'd do whatever you can to placate the Psilons while you can while you build up your own defenses, you might have over-extended your empire! Starbases are usually very good at deterring early game fleets since it takes quite a bit of ships to equal a starbase at the start, but as the game goes on the less effective they are, so I imagine the Psilons have nothing to fear from you.

Has it really been that long since you last played MoO2? I haven't played much computer/video games in general the past couple of years, but if I had the free time too, the Simtex classics are what I'd want to play. I suppose there are lots of new games since 1996 or whatever lol. Keep us posted as to the happenings, let's see if the humans can hold on to the galaxy!

[haphazard1]

I have played quite a bit of classic MOO over the years (a bunch of it with other folks here at Realms Beyond ), but MOO2 just did not get to the top of the list of games to be played until now. With Steam sales, Epic store free games, and other classics on GOG there are just too many games and not enough time. I have an embarassingly large number of games that I have not gotten around to playing yet. But it has been fun re-visiting MOO2, so thanks for inspiring me.

In the game, I have plenty of available command points to sustain a larger fleet. I just need to actually build more ships. I have been focusing my most productive planet (my homeworld) on more colony ships. (You can see one in the galaxy screenshot, heading towards Katab in the east to claim another system.) Once I get the robo miners built on a few more worlds, I will have more planets with enough production to get some ships built. I also need to refit the handful of ships I have, as most of them are rather out-dated in tech. (I like that you can modernize ships in MOO2, rather than having to scrap old models and start over.) The Psilons certainly have nothing to fear from me at the moment, as my entire fleet would get annihilated attacking a star base. Especially as the Psilons' creative trait gives them lots of tech goodies to make their star bases extremely formidable.

[naufragar]

Once I finish this nostalgia game, I am planning to give Interstellar Space: Genesis a try. It is a modern take on the MOO2 concept, with a bunch of changes and new mechanics added. I am curious to see how it plays. I will post my thoughts once I have played a game or two.

I’d be interested in reading that. I picked up Interstellar Space Genesis, having never played MOO2, and I put it down before getting very far because of the same slowness you mention in Master of Orion.

But a lot of space 4Xs feel that way to me. GalCiv, Endless Space.

[WingsofMemory]

I have played quite a bit of classic MOO over the years (a bunch of it with other folks here at Realms Beyond ), but MOO2 just did not get to the top of the list of games to be played until now. With Steam sales, Epic store free games, and other classics on GOG there are just too many games and not enough time. I have an embarassingly large number of games that I have not gotten around to playing yet. But it has been fun re-visiting MOO2, so thanks for inspiring me.

In the game, I have plenty of available command points to sustain a larger fleet. I just need to actually build more ships. I have been focusing my most productive planet (my homeworld) on more colony ships. (You can see one in the galaxy screenshot, heading towards Katab in the east to claim another system.) Once I get the robo miners built on a few more worlds, I will have more planets with enough production to get some ships built. I also need to refit the handful of ships I have, as most of them are rather out-dated in tech. (I like that you can modernize ships in MOO2, rather than having to scrap old models and start over.) The Psilons certainly have nothing to fear from me at the moment, as my entire fleet would get annihilated attacking a star base. Especially as the Psilons' creative trait gives them lots of tech goodies to make their star bases extremely formidable.

Fair enough, I prefer MoO1 as well. And fair enough lol.

As long as the Psilons aren't tough enough to crack your defenses you've got this one in the bag.

[haphazard1]

I don't think the Psilons are strong enough to break through my star bases. At least not yet; I will have to keep an eye on their weapons tech. Before the spying problems (not sure who caused those, as the Darloks are not present in this galaxy) I had good relations and active trade and research treaties with all the AIs. I was hoping the good diplo would protect me long enough to get all my planets developed. At that point I would have a large advantage in total pop, production, and research and should win fairly easily. Now things are more difficult, and I may need to fight a lot sooner than I had hoped.

I hope to have time for some more turns this weekend. Will the Psilons attack? I'll update once I have played more.

[WingsofMemory]

I don't think the Psilons are strong enough to break through my star bases. At least not yet; I will have to keep an eye on their weapons tech. Before the spying problems (not sure who caused those, as the Darloks are not present in this galaxy) I had good relations and active trade and research treaties with all the AIs. I was hoping the good diplo would protect me long enough to get all my planets developed. At that point I would have a large advantage in total pop, production, and research and should win fairly easily. Now things are more difficult, and I may need to fight a lot sooner than I had hoped.

I hope to have time for some more turns this weekend. Will the Psilons attack? I'll update once I have played more.

Sounds like you are in a good place then.

You don't need Darlocks to get constantly blamed for spy shenanigans. Everyone will do it to you. An interesting thing with that in MoO2 that's not in MoO1 (as far as I am aware) you can not be framed for spying if you have never ever made a spy. This makes a pure pacifist run possible in MoO2.

I've tried that before, and it was really hard yet fun in a weird way. Basically you need to build a giant space fleet. (The stronger your fleet, the less anyone wants to declare war on you.) Then, whenever people make demands you always give in. Never ever ally with anyone, since they will call you into wars. You even need to be careful with non-aggression pacts, since they can cause other empires to hate you. As mentioned before, never ever make a single spy. You need to make sure to keep your military might ahead of everyone elses which will strain your economy, but just make sure to not fall behind in tech. Unless you have over-expanded (which can be a cause for war) or under-expanded (making your economy too weak) you will eventually be in a position to either A) win by diplomacy or B) decide that exterminating the antarans doesn't count against pacifism and build a portal to win that way. A lot of your time will be spent trying to buddy up to and placate other empires since self-defense is violence, and therefore a fail condition.

Anyone else tried a pacifist run of MoO2? And good luck crushing the psilons, although I doubt you'll need it from the sounds of it lol.

[haphazard1]

I have played some more turns (not sure how many; does anyone know how to tell? the listed date is confusing). War has broken out in the galaxy, but so far I have not gotten pulled into the conflicts. The Sakkra have gotten aggressive and have attacked the Elerians (these two AIs have traded the Justa system back and forth about 4 times), and the lizards are now also at war with the Psilons. I don't know if the Psilons saw an opportunity, or if they were pulled into the war by the Elerians. I suspect a two front war may be more than the Sakkra can handle. But all three AIs being busy fighting one another is certainly good for me.

I have added four more planets to my empire , mainly by colonizing additonal planets in systems I already control. MOO2 allows you to do this by having your existing colony in the system build a colony base, which is only 40% of the cost of a colony ship. If you have sufficient freighters available, moving pop between worlds in the same system is immediate.

I was not quick enough about building a colony base in the Katab system, and the bears sent in a colony ship and claimed the system's other planet. You can see them approaching (Katab is in the east; note all the Sakkra and Elerian ships around Justa in the west):

However, the planet they took is pretty bad:

Ultra poor, low G (a hefty penalty for the high G bears), and tiny? Not really upset that they got that one. Sure, I would have grabbed it eventually. Another planet is another planet, after all. And being terran it could at least be used to grow food for other worlds. But my relations with the bears are pretty good, and I have a missile base on my world in the system and am building a star base. Missile bases in MOO2 work differently than classic MOO. It provides a fixed amount of space for launchers of whatever your best missile tech is. You can also have fighter garrisons to provide air cover, armor garrisons to provide tanks, and marine barracks to provide marines for ground combat. All of your ground combat forces benefit from whatever ground tech you have, such as improved armor.

The galactic council met, and I was nominated along with the Sakkra. (Their racial bonuses in MOO2 allow them to have much higher maximum pop per planet, so the lizards have a lot of pop even though they have few systems.)

The council vote took place a couple turns before the Sakkra-Psilon war started, or I might have won. Instead the Psilons abstained, and no one could get close to 2/3. I abstained to avoid angering the Sakkra.

I have recently discovered improved shields tech, so I have been refitting my existing ships. My star bases will also automatically be upgraded with the new tech. I still need to build more ships, though, as the various AIs have some pretty scary fleets moving around.

I have been terraforming my planets to increase my max pop and to be able to grow food on more worlds, rather than needing to ship it all from the two terran planets I own. Terraforming is another thing that works differently than classic MOO. Terraforming is a fixed price build that changes the class of the planet by one grade, with repeated terraforming increasing in cost by 100% each time you do it. Radiated worlds can not be terraformed until a planetary shield is built, which changes them to barren. Barren worlds take three terraformings to reach terran class. Toxic worlds can never be terraformed, which tends to make them poor long term investments.

Overall I feel pretty good about my current position. I am leading in total population, tech, worlds, and total production. And with my terraforming push, all of those edges should grow. If I can stay out of the current war while the AIs smash each other's fleets, I should have time to finish developing my planets and switch to serious fleet construction. Then I can go on offense.

[WingsofMemory]

Thanks for the update! I can't see you not winning this one with board looking the way it does currently. The question is, how are you going to win?

If an opportunity to win by council presents itself, are you going to take it? Or would you rather conquer everyone yourself? Of course the defeating Antarans are always a nice way to win the galaxy. I suppose it depends how long you want the game to last.

Who knows, maybe a curveball will be sent your way?

[haphazard1]

If I get a chance to win by council, I will probably take it. This should be a winning position, so taking the victory and maybe starting another game would be fine. Although it would probably be a new game of Interstellar Space: Genesis to see how that compares to MOO2. I should probably invade and conquer at least one planet, just to do it.