Nudist Revival

[FoxBat]

LoL should be wrapping up in the next 2 sessions, so I wanted to start discussion on ideas for a new team variant. I'm going to pick my favorite one for backing in this thread however. I'd like to propose a modified set of rules that will make it easier for more people to participate, since manpower was our major problem towards the end. So without further ado, here's the proposed ruleset, and I'll append discussion afterwards.

Nudists

Nudists shall be an open team variant. Anyone may bring any character to any session of nudists as long as they abide by the nudist rules while in that session. You may use skills (and equipment when applicable) acquired from anywhere in any way as long as you stay within the allowed limitations. The team as a whole will still progress from mission to mission along the primary quest path in nudist form, but skill caps/quests will be done on player's own time and may be done outside of nudist rules. The use of heroes and henchmen is forbidden, so nudists are encouraged to bring in as many guests as needed.

The permitted weapons/shields are limited to those avaliable for purchase from Chorben in Kamadan or Hiroyuki in Shing Jea Monestary. If someone on the team doesn't have access to these locales, another team-mate can buy items for him or her. Additionally, you must meet the items 1-attribute requirement in order to use it. Weapon upgrades like hilts or grips may not be used on these items, they must remain "clean".

No armor may be worn at all, with the exception of 0-AL holiday hats. These hats may be infused once the team has passed the Iron Mines of Moladune mission. Runes are not to be used in these hats. Contraversial possibility: also allow starter-level vanilla arm armor from Ascalon/Kamdan/Shing Jae for an additional infusion piece at minimal impact. A similar starter-level helm may be used if a teammate lacks any holiday hats. Runes are still banned.

Any one-use item such as candy canes, easter eggs, drake kebobs, and scrolls may not be used.

The team will start in Sanctum Cay where nudists last left off and proceed through the Prophecies missions and primary quests. Through Sanctum Cay and the three desert ones, skills will be limited to core + prophecies and elites may not be used. Once the team ascends at augury rock and begins the Dragon's Lair mission, the use of elites is permitted. Option: skills from any campaign may be used at this point.

[FoxBat]

There's my attempt at a Keep It Simple Stupid ruleset. Now some justification for changes.

I think making variants "open team" is the most important thing at the moment. Many people don't have character slots to spare for a new variant, and this lets guests come and go instead of relying on hero/hench which is especially important for nudists IMO. Not to mention that not too many people are going to want to grow a fresh character all the way up to sanctum cay by themselves.

I want to ban hero/hench because
1) they are more exploitable with the new controls
2) they aren't nudists and heroes can't be converted into them
3) having a full team of 8 via guesting is more fun

I went with the req-1 weaponsmith crafters because they are the most reliable and convenient source of minimally powered weapons. Most people don't save their starter gear, so this is meant to get new people on the team with minimal fuss. The meeting-weapon-requirement is just a KISS way of our old rules of only warriors on shields and rangers on bows. It is notable that the shields have some unfortunate +15 HP mods, but it's a fairly negligable effect to trade for KISS imo.

The req-1 weaponsmiths sell +5 enr staves, which do empower casters with extra energy, but there's 3 reasons I like this:
1) I can't find any reliable source for equivalent starter wands for all professions, or an attribute-free wand
2) It allows classes to (theoretically) use their 25-energy skills without jumping through hoops.
3) It lets us eliminate the extra rule about "glasses" for using hard rez skills while at 60% DP

The addition of arm armor is questionable, but is the minimal impact way of getting another infusion slot to help us fight the rediculous spectral agony. Many classes' feet feature energy regen, and wearing any chest or legs just wouldn't feel "nude" anymore. A major downside is we can't just have an unqualified "we don't use armor" tagline. I suppose we should test fighting some mursaat with one infusion headpiece and see how that goes first.

The "one-use" item limitations are totally new and debateable, though I think nudists should strive to be as item-independent as possible against the plethora of new items. For one there is the unlimited and cheap source of the very minor effects such as drake flesh, pannini salad, and skalefin soup, which give +1 health regen, +5 armor and +30 health. I'm not sure if anyone would jump through the hoops for this minor cheese, but it would bother me if our whole team started doing this. Another more significant question is the importation of candy canes, easter eggs and so forth. In theory you can buy enough of these to eliminate all death penalty instantly and have constant +1 or +2 to all attributes, in practice these may be used less freely because they are expensive. The nightfall foods and the holiday items can be banned or allowed seperately as well. I don't mind XP scrolls as much as a balanced compromise for DP elimination.

The initial core + proph limitations are mainly there as a sense of continuity for our old-timers. These might be eliminated if we can't get enough of said old-timers at the given times, or if they don't care for it anyway. Allowing nightfall skills is going to introduce a major power creep such as mysticism-powered D/Mo tanks and Zealous Bendiction monks, but this may be welcome given the difficulties we face in the later missions, and probably just more fun to have these options to play with. Either way I think the no-elites before ascension/elites afterward is a good KISS rule to fairly reflect the attainable power level at that point in the desert, while keeping time-consuming "elite captures" off the team's schedule.

Anyway at this point let me know what you like/don't like about this ruleset. Once it's hammered out we can then discuss whether to pursue this variant on a team following LoL, though I feel it's likely to be a popular one with our crowd.

[mucco]

I would like to try out a variant! Are there particular requirements, such as ventrilo like PvP, or experience/level "strongly advised"?

Since my ranger, after endless hours of struggle, is almost approaching that mission, I could join the group from the start.

[Lurker Wyrm]

We had decided against using any items that provided energy (aside from the 60dp res) because that would make it more of a challenge. Eles had GoLE, which was fine for getting a Meteor Shower out. Now that it's been buffed (even moreso for ele primaries) it should be even easier for them to use high energy skills without worry. The only other spellcasters we had were necros and monks, and they don't really have any 25e skills worth using, so I don't see that as too much of an issue. To be honest, if you kept your selection to the 5e skills, energy management was never really an issue. As for the req. 1 weapons... well, I would think there's a pretty noticable difference between 3-5 and 8-11 damage. KoP was the one who wanted that rule enforced more than any of the rest of us, so I would defer to him on that one.

I think we should keep to the same rule as before that negates the use of elites and/or non-core classes until after ascension, just like we had decided on before. Reason being that the new classes have skills to make the Sanctum and the desert a little too easy (Dervishes in Sanctum Cay? yeesh...). And as for the elites, well, they're just not available at that point in the game.

Don't forget that we were also adhering to a 170 att point distribution since the quests for the final 30 were beyond where we were at that point of the game.

[KingOfPain]

Quick reply before running to work.

Nudists shall be an open team variant. Anyone may bring any character to any session of nudists as long as they abide by the nudist rules while in that session. You may use skills (and equipment when applicable) acquired from anywhere in any way as long as you stay within the allowed limitations. The team as a whole will still progress from mission to mission along the primary quest path in nudist form, but skill caps/quests will be done on player's own time and may be done outside of nudist rules.

Looks good. I really enjoyed the few times we had guests to fill in for absentees; I think they enjoyed it as well. Now that we are all practically lvl 20 anyway, it will be easier to find guests. (originally, we were going to open up after ascension, iirc)

The use of heroes and henchmen is forbidden, so nudists are encouraged to bring in as many guests as needed.

To Clarify - That applies during Nudists Meet, not while skill capping and doing side quests.
Aside - I would like to see Master Diff quests be done with nudist team (if Nightfall).

The permitted weapons/shields are limited to those avaliable for purchase from Chorben in Kamadan or Hiroyuki in Shing Jea Monestary.

Okay with me. However, if we are to do that I would rather let us use Candy Cane weapons and Ginger Bread/Candy Cane Off-hands. They are one notch up from basics but much easier to be written in - They are snacks, can't help if my food gets in the way. (Banana Scythe included)

Most of us (even non Nudists) would have a collection of CC and GB items already. If not, I should be able to supply them.

No armor may be worn at all, with the exception of 0-AL holiday hats. These hats may be infused once the team has passed the Iron Mines of Moladune mission. Runes are not to be used in these hats. Contraversial possibility: also allow starter-level vanilla arm armor from Ascalon/Kamdan/Shing Jae for an additional infusion piece at minimal impact. A similar starter-level helm may be used if a teammate lacks any holiday hats. Runes are still banned.

I say stay naked as naked can be (except holiday hats) and skip to Nightfall altogether. I will still like closure at Sanctum Cay, then one of you creative writers can write us to Istan (ship wreck, got lost or special assignment). This will fix our dilemma concerning armors, and also open up the nudists to more players. I don't mind going further in Prophecies if you all want.

The "one-use" item limitations are totally new and debateable, though I think nudists should strive to be as item-independent as possible against the plethora of new items. For one there is the unlimited and cheap source of the very minor effects such as drake flesh, pannini salad, and skalefin soup, which give +1 health regen, +5 armor and +30 health. I'm not sure if anyone would jump through the hoops for this minor cheese, but it would bother me if our whole team started doing this. Another more significant question is the importation of candy canes, easter eggs and so forth. In theory you can buy enough of these to eliminate all death penalty instantly and have constant +1 or +2 to all attributes, in practice these may be used less freely because they are expensive. The nightfall foods and the holiday items can be banned or allowed seperately as well. I don't mind XP scrolls as much as a balanced compromise for DP elimination.

Same concerns but, I am leaning toward non-restricted use of one-use items, especially food items. We do have to watch our figures being Nudists and all.

KoP

[Lurker Wyrm]

I say stay naked as naked can be (except holiday hats) and skip to Nightfall altogether.

Personally, I'd like to finish Prophecies first, before tackling Nightfall

I will still like closure at Sanctum Cay, then one of you creative writers can write us to Istan (ship wreck, got lost or special assignment). This will fix our dilemma concerning armors, and also open up the nudists to more players. I don't mind going further in Prophecies if you all want.

I still have to get us out of Northern Kryta...

[FoxBat]

stuff

I know this is a relaxing of the rules, but the primary motivation is to give everyone fair equipment options that are easy to obtain, to make it an "open team" variant. Anything else will probably not get off the ground due to the same manpower issues we had before. If you want to stick to the old rules or something closer to it, I'd appreciate suggestions for how to do this as this is the minimal convenient equip I can come up with.

Quick reply before running to work.
To Clarify - That applies during Nudists Meet, not while skill capping and doing side quests.

The nudist rules don't necessariy apply at all when you aren't in a meet. If teammembers want to cap skills or do sidequests with their clothes, green weapons, and full hero/hench set then they are welcome too. That goes with being an "open team," it's the only way to remain fair with characters who have already capped/quested a ton and to allow people with less time to still have a decent elite selection. If you would like to do your side quests and caps while nude then you are welcome and can use heroes, henches, or whatever items or rules you want.

Okay with me. However, if we are to do that I would rather let us use Candy Cane weapons and Ginger Bread/Candy Cane Off-hands.

I wouldn't mind the rules allowing these but I'm not sure I would want their use to be mandated, nor for it to feel mandated for min-maxers like me. Not everyone is a complete packrat and I'd like the variant to be open to allies as well, plus this isn't necessarily the "wintersday nudists", and the CC weapons are not as well balanced as identical req counterparts (5 dmg daggers and 10 dmg scythe got the shaft...)

As far as weapons go the req 5 ones avaliable from weaponsmiths seem roughly equal to the candy cane varieties and thus I'd argue for allowing those if CCs are to be allowed. Although said staves have 15% HCT/HSR on attribute from factions and +8 energy, which is more of a headache. We could make it req 5 for martial weapons and req 1 for caster staves, so then you'd be comparing 10% HSR of a req 1 staff against extra wand damage.

I say stay naked as naked can be (except holiday hats) and skip to Nightfall altogether. I will still like closure at Sanctum Cay, then one of you creative writers can write us to Istan (ship wreck, got lost or special assignment). This will fix our dilemma concerning armors, and also open up the nudists to more players. I don't mind going further in Prophecies if you all want.

This is workable and I'd go along, but personally I've seen enough of nightfall lately and want a reason to return to prophecies, and this might be the case for any LoLers switching over as well after having just run through NF. I think the mursaat are manageable with good team strategy and new professions/skills even if gloves are not allowed. Factions is a possibility but aside from everyone else hating that campaign, it would probably be much more challenging than prophecies and make more sense to do "after" if at all.

Question: would you then be suggesting starting from masters Istani quests and then proceeding through a land of heroes, consulate docks and the usual path?

I guess this kind of thing should come down to a vote later, the rules won't be affected by it very much either way, and I don't mind shifting the non-proph skill limitation to after the completion of sanctum cay. In NF case you would probably permit elites after the "Hunted" quest is finished.

[Lurker Wyrm]

If you want to stick to the old rules or something closer to it, I'd appreciate suggestions for how to do this as this is the minimal convenient equip I can come up with.

My suggestion would be to leave it open to player discretion. For example: I would stick with the more strict rules of the old variant, but if someone guested, say... Aravis, then we wouldn't force her to live by the same rules; she could use the modified version of them if she so chose. That way it's up to each person to decide how much they want to handicap themself, as long as they stay within the overall set of rules.

[KingOfPain]

Hi

Voice chat is a good thing to have but not a requirement; it helps to listen even if you are not on the mic. We started the Nudists movement a while back, and we are now talking about a revival and making it an open team. Basically, it means any characters (~lvl20 recommended) can join as long as they observe Nudists rules while playing in team meets.

You can get more details and insight by looking at some of the old Nudist threads on the same sub forum.


Would be glad to have you when we get started again

KoP

[KingOfPain]

I don't think any of the proposed items will break the balance. As far as damage goes, the base damage won't amount to a lot of difference.

- I would love everyone to be using Candy Cane and Ginger Bread items simply to keep the rules clean.

- Starter grade items are easy to get since Factions and Nightfalls, there really is no good reason why anyone interested in Nudists cannot get thier own. I am willing to use one mule and gather a bunch of starter items, and donate the account for RB public access if needed be.

- Weaponsmith (from the proposed NPCs) items. I like the idea of requirments. If you can't meet the req, you can't use it.

Question: would you then be suggesting starting from masters Istani quests and then proceeding through a land of heroes, consulate docks and the usual path?

Sure. Again, I am not opposed to go where everyone else want to go, even Factions (did I say that?!?!).

It seems Vex is screwed. No one wants to talk to Vex and give "The time is nigh". Is this a known bug?

For those of us carrying on with old Nudists we will want to get our 30 attribute points. But how appealing is that for new recruits?

KoP