RB: Community vs. Guild?

[Lurker Wyrm]

So, I'm slowly starting to play the game again and what I'm seeing and hearing is a bit troublesome. Realms Beyond is, I think, for all intents and purposes, a dead guild. Most of the people we would consider the core members are playing very little, if at all. They're all either too busy, too tired, or some other too something. There hasn't been enough active recruitment (we're not even attempting to advertise ourselves so people can find their way here) so there are no fresh faces. What's worse is that I don't think the RB guild even knows what it is or what it stands for. Granted, I haven't been around that much in the past month and a half, but it just seems that there are some very serious issues that have been festering for a while now and are just going to continue to get worse.

We have no identity as a guild. Variants? No team variants are running (there's talk of running one for GW:EN but even that looks a bit shaky) and there's absolutely no talk of individual based ones, unless you count people going for survivor titles. Heck, if you click the link on the website that offers an explanation about variants it just links to the Diablo page. PvE community? Not really. Most of the time you have to solo because people in the guild are either doing something else or don't want to, or there just isn't anyone on. We have no focus right now so the guild roster is basically a glorified chat interface where we can exchange witty sarcasm every so often and, on a very rare occassion, do a mission together. There's a topic on the alliance sub-board that says concerning mission statement. Well, how can we have an alliance mission statement if we don't even have one for the guild?

It seems as though no one ever really thought of what RB is supposed to represent to the Guild Wars community, or, it may be more appropriate to say that no one ever thought of what Guild Wars would represent to the RB community. When I look at the backlogs of the forums, I think everyone was so caught up at the time in the idea of GW being the closest thing they would get to Diablo 3 and started playing it for those reasons. Some liked it, some didn't, but enough of the community thought it was fun enough to add to the list of community games, still playing it by Diablo rules and not Guild Wars rules.

I think we're getting too caught up in the idea of RB being a guild, and losing sight of RB as a community. It seems that right now all the focus is on making the guild look good, making the guild self-important, making the guild the center of attention. I think that because of this we're losing sight of the community. We're a ship sailing without a compass, or, if you want one of Fox's metaphors, a deaf bat out of hell. I know some of you are going to argue with me and say that we've been a community the whole time and just look at our spiffy new alliance but I think that's just an illusion, trying to put gold plating on a shack with rotting wood, and I'm not even sure the plating is gold. We're in such a hurry to push forward that we're sailing without a keel and, pretty soon, without masts.

So what do we do now? Where do we go from here? Is it really all that important for RB to exist as an in-game guild? Will the community fall apart if it's not tied up ever so neatly in the game? There are constant arguments about what the cape and hall should look like as well as just about anything else you can think of. Should there even be a Realms Beyond in-game guild? Are we the Titanic of Guild Wars? So sure and confident that the guild is unsinkable that we're not bothering to navigate the icebergs?

I remember that some time ago when I brought up something similar about RB becoming stagnant people just laughed at me and said RB would always be around. Well, is it? Most of the old guard has left the game and the few that are left aren't bothering to teach the new, so the new guard doesn't have any of the values of the old. So what's left? A bunch of people arguing with each other about how they want to run the community. Not be a part of it. There's no middle ground. People are either tired and don't care or they're trying to force their way on everyone else, using a sledge hammer to put nails in a coffin.

Is the RB in-game guild destined for a coffin? So much importance in Guild Wars is placed on what guild you're in and it seems that when people join the guild they're not really joining the community. Those that do join the community and then later leave the guild often leave the community as well, even though their reasons for leaving might have more to do with wanting to be in a guild with people they know in real life or wanting to be part of a guild that's focused on some specific type of gameplay. In a way, you could make a case for the guild hurting the community. That just seems wrong in my book. There have been members of the community that never once bothered to join the guild, and some may have left the community because of all the squabbles we've had over the years (yes, it's plural now) about the guild.

I guess I keep coming back to the same point, which is: what's more important, an in-game guild or a community of people? Does the in-game guild need to be disbanded and turned into a "ghost guild" for the community to survive? Am I completely off-base?

edit: Oh yeah, I forgot to give credit to Fox for the old not teaching the new point. Sorry if that puts you on the spot Fox, but it wasn't something I had come up with on my own, so I thought it best to give credit where credit is due.

[FoxBat]

I'm probably too set in my ways, but I'll still take Diablo and every other RB game as a proper model for our GW community. Notice that none of these games have any guild support whatsoever, so yes, I'd say there is too much obsessing over the guild/alliance at the expense of members. That said, thanks to the lack of chat channels, there's really no feasible way to do anything together outside of a guild unless it is scheduled on the forums, so a guild does have its uses.

Eventually Diablo channel/games/mules did die off due to inactivity, but several successful team variants popped up after that point, as well as the occasional solo variant/ironman reports. I think that's a model to keep in mind as activity declines. Nonetheless I expect GW:EN and the end of summer to bring back a temporary resurgance, so it's premature to throw in the towel just yet. So let that get some peoples back, try and start a team variant at that point, and let things develop as they may.

Also, don't beat around the bush. The main thing the guild is arguing about is alliance-related things, as always, its not like we have anyone else to look good to. While the guild may slide towards inactive, leaving, or silent players, there's no reason to disband until there's no-one left to lead. I can't say the same about any alliance though.

[WarBlade]

Just in the past week I've been teaming up with Xyn and frequently one other to knock out missions in hard mode. We did all three Realm of Torment missions back to back after a vanquish. The guild channel does occasionally get used as an IRC substitute. That's fine too. That's just part of what happens in an active gaming community.

The guild is not dead.

[KingOfPain]

I have been thinking of alliance events and what can make it fun so people would want to get together and, well, play together. To be honest, I don't know how you link stuff together and come to conclusions that you draw

Instead of laying the blame on the guild or comunnity (not to argue if some of the points you have made are valid, or not), why not look at the game itself? While GW has some addictive elements there just isn't enough to hold the interest for many people, you included. And you do see a swing in activities whenever a new chapter is released.

Why are you playing again? Why are we trying to come up with alliance events? I think the answer to both questions is, we like us. When RBGW goes 6 feet under, it's not because of its people, it's because the game doesn't offer enough anymore.

KoP

[WarBlade]

Nah, it'll be because of RBGW2 ya drongo!

[Lurker Wyrm]

I'm probably too set in my ways, but I'll still take Diablo and every other RB game as a proper model for our GW community.

Well, perhaps you might want to explain that a bit more to people who were never a part of the RB community before GW? You said it yourself that the old isn't teaching the new, so aren't you advocating a vicious cycle?

That said, thanks to the lack of chat channels, there's really no feasible way to do anything together outside of a guild unless it is scheduled on the forums, so a guild does have its uses.

The past few times you and I have gamed together in GW, how many times did we use the guild chat interface as a means to get it started? There are so many chat options out there that a guild is hardly neccessary for real-time communication with others. I really dislike MSN, but I use it, in addition to AIM, to keep in touch with people and to get organized. In today's world, there's really no excuse to not use an instant messaging program.

To be honest, I don't know how you link stuff together and come to conclusions that you draw

That's... disappointing.

Instead of laying the blame on the guild or comunnity (not to argue if some of the points you have made are valid, or not), why not look at the game itself?

Um... I... did?

Why are you playing again?

Well, first off, Jude asked me to teach her some of the finer points of PvP. Secondly, I'm making myself available to people that want/need an extra team member, as long as they summon me on IM, which I can usually be found on. I'm still not going to be signing on otherwise, there's no point to it. All I'd do is sit around in an empty guild hall and look at an inactive guild roster.

When RBGW goes 6 feet under, it's not because of its people, it's because the game doesn't offer enough anymore.

Zed-F said the same thing before and now he's gone, with no one taking his place. How much longer until you're gone?

[Seijin]

All I'd do is sit around in an empty guild hall and look at an inactive guild roster.

I actually do this a lot....

[DocVal]

People are playing indeed. I in particular have been playing way more than is healthy, something which will soon stop when my current task is done. Xyn, WB, Jude (?), Seijin, and several others are regularly on, basically everyday.

I'm not of the old guard, so I don't really know whether any of the above are of the old crowd. You may be missing some people in particular, but there are clearly people on, almost all the time. We regularly do stuff together.

There is very little guild-wide organized play, I agree. But that stems from our general lack of interest in PvP, and the lack of new content. Smaller organized stuff is in progress; for instance, Xyn and I vanquished Elona together over the last month.

RB in GW needs 1) new content, and 2) NO STRIFE, which I completely cannot understand.

[KingOfPain]

I'm still not going to be signing on otherwise, there's no point to it. All I'd do is sit around in an empty guild hall and look at an inactive guild roster.

Hehe. The guys who says he's not going to log complains about not wanting to sign on to see an empty roster
Anyway, that just prove my point. When RBGW goes 6 feet under, it's not because of its people, it's because the game doesn't offer enough anymore. You do want to play with us, not the game.

KoP

[Aeon the Piglet]

I actually do this a lot....

Not to butt in or anything... but me too =(