October 4th, 2011, 11:06
(This post was last modified: October 9th, 2011, 17:20 by Zeraan.)
Posts: 151
Threads: 10
Joined: Nov 2010
I'm starting this thread because I don't want to derail Kyrub's unofficial patch thread anymore 
As discussed, I will embark on a project to create an new version of MoO using reMoM as a base (C# and OpenGL). There are several reasons why I'm doing this:
1. I need to learn OpenGL because I set a goal for that at my work.
2. It will give us opportunities to improve the AI in various aspects.
3. It will allow us to fix bugs and design flaws that can't be fixed at assembly level.
4. I love MoO, and want to see it at its fullest potential
The goal of this project is to create a version that's basically identical to original MoO, but with enhancements and bug fixes under the hood.
I will finish the LBX tool that I'm working on first, then start on this project. While you all wait for that, feel free to discuss things that you'd like to see in this project.
What design flaws in MoO do you feel need to be fixed? What major bugs that can't be fixed at assembly level need to be removed? What exploits should be fixed?
This is the project's page: reMoO Project
Posts: 901
Threads: 28
Joined: Oct 2008
Zeraan Wrote:3. It will allow us to fix bugs and design flaws that can't be fixed at assembly level. Hey! Nothing cannot be fixed from assembly. 
As far as I know, I killed all existing bugs in MoO. Not working REFIT fonction being an exception. But fixing refit felt more like altering rules (because everybody was accustomed to the current state) than a bug. So I called it back, eventually.
reMoo:
Zeraan, strictly speaking, I am not a part of reMoo project. I offer the advice on game mechanics, if necessary, as an externalist. If there are other existing sources, I will always tell you to find your informations in appropriate place. Hope you understand.
Game mechanics (a kick off)
The MoO game currently does not track what AI has/has not seen, what AI knows (about enemy designs etc.). No fog of war. This probably cannot be improved from assembly level. I fully expect reMoo to put an end to this shameful lack.
The game severly needs a diplomacy overview screen where you could see all (known) relations together. Note that Starlords (MoO predessor) game has that screen. You should be able to extract the LBX graphics from it!
Posts: 151
Threads: 10
Joined: Nov 2010
kyrub Wrote:Hey! Nothing cannot be fixed from assembly.
That's true, it's true as well that I could move a mountain using a spoon
Quote:As far as I know, I killed all existing bugs in MoO. Not working REFIT fonction being an exception. But fixing refit felt more like altering rules (because everybody was accustomed to the current state) than a bug. So I called it back, eventually.
reMoo:
Zeraan, strictly speaking, I am not a part of reMoo project. I offer the advice on game mechanics, if necessary, as an externalist. If there are other existing sources, I will always tell you to find your informations in appropriate place. Hope you understand.
I understand completely. Don't want to dig around in assembly when there's already existing information on how things work. I will try and find information first, and if none exists, then I'll pose questions on this thread where people who already know the stuff can answer. I expect to do reMoO all by myself, with exception of sounds.
Quote:Game mechanics (a kick off)
The MoO game currently does not track what AI has/has not seen, what AI knows (about enemy designs etc.). No fog of war. This probably cannot be improved from assembly level. I fully expect reMoo to put an end to this shameful lack.
By fog of war, do you mean that the AI knows exactly where everything is, as well as which planets to send colony ships to even if the systems aren't explored?
Quote:The game severly needs a diplomacy overview screen where you could see all (known) relations together. Note that Starlords (MoO predessor) game has that screen. You should be able to extract the LBX graphics from it!
Wow, I'll have to take a gander at that! If this is indeed true, then that'll be one thing that I'll add to reMoO!
Posts: 21
Threads: 0
Joined: Jan 2010
=== moved from the other thread ===
my humble vision of how OpenMoO/reMoO could be handled: visual part as a solid beginning by reusing existing (LBX) resources and preserving original feel - no fancy resolution scaling/rotation/zooming/shading and like features, but with the ability easily switch to more appealing look (engine) later (layered interchangeable component architecture). That alone would take great amount of time and efforts. Well, OpenXCOM attacks this original feel preservation approach
Game mechanics should be left aside at that stage - fake rudimentary blocks would suffice all needs for testing.
And best wishes for the project startup and attraction of eager developers 
Posts: 476
Threads: 22
Joined: Apr 2011
Im unsure how a remake of a 2d game teaches a lot of opengl. OpenGL is all about 3d, and has some 2d as special case. You will learn quiet some bit, but miss out on some very important (for opengl) concepts.
Posts: 151
Threads: 10
Joined: Nov 2010
VM Wrote:Im unsure how a remake of a 2d game teaches a lot of opengl. OpenGL is all about 3d, and has some 2d as special case. You will learn quiet some bit, but miss out on some very important (for opengl) concepts.
That's correct. Let me explain why I'm doing this.
I understand the general concepts of OpenGL and how different components work, however, my problem is actually setting up OpenGL for use. And I don't like C++, I rather use C# if possible. So seeing that reMoM has a working OpenGL wrapper/initalization in C#, that will help me learn how to work with OpenGL in C#.
When I have the OpenGL for reMoO up and running, I will add the intro video and the main menu where the only thing you can do is exit. At that point, I will pause development of reMoO, and start work on a very very simple 3D game that will look similar to Wolfstein 3D visually.
Once this game is completed (not polished, just working as in moving around, shooting 2D billboard monsters, and completing levels), then my goal of learning OpenGL is done. I will then go back to developing reMoO and Beyond Beyaan.
Am I crazy for working on TWO 4x games when most people who've attempted to develop ONE failed? 
Posts: 21
Threads: 0
Joined: Jan 2010
don't want to spoil an overall disposition, but this planned OpenGL learning process shouldn't be called reMoO in the first place as it isn't from the start. Recreation of intro is great for the personal growth, but intro doesn't equal the whole - title is just wrong IMHO.
Simply time constraints and scope of TWO projects likely will take their toll - and don't forget real life factor. Wish I am wrong, suprises and inspirational things do happen -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vo0Cazxj_yc 
Zeraan Wrote:Once this game is completed (not polished....), then my goal of learning OpenGL is done. I will then go back to developing reMoO and Beyond Beyaan.
Posts: 151
Threads: 10
Joined: Nov 2010
Doomk Wrote:don't want to spoil an overall disposition, but this planned OpenGL learning process shouldn't be called reMoO in the first place as it isn't from the start. Recreation of intro is great for the personal growth, but intro doesn't equal the whole - title is just wrong IMHO.
Simply time constraints and scope of TWO projects likely will take their toll - and don't forget real life factor. Wish I am wrong, suprises and inspirational things do happen -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vo0Cazxj_yc
I think you misunderstood. My plans are to create a working OpenGL for reMoO, with keyboard and mouse handling. At that point, I will pause, not stop, the development, and focus on learning the 3D aspects and creating a simple 3D shooter. When that's done, I will go back to reMoO and Beyond Beyaan, and develop both to completion. So reMoO will be a full game, not just an intro video. I already have a lot of ideas on how to do things for reMoO, based on my experience from Beyond Beyaan.
Hope that clears things up!
Posts: 151
Threads: 10
Joined: Nov 2010
Progress!  In this screenshot, I have my reMoO window open on bottom left, and DOSBox for comparision in top right. Right now, it's just rendering the first frame of the intro, but this means:
I've got the OpenGL/OpenTK set up
It handles mouse/keyboard input
It processes updates
I just need to figure out one more thing, then I'm set for the project: How do I change screens. I think I can figure this out. When I've figured out this part, then I will attach the license agreement on top of every .cs file, and upload it to source forge or a similar service.
Screenshot: http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b102/Zeraan/1.png
Posts: 151
Threads: 10
Joined: Nov 2010
I've finished the intro (no sound though), it just loop over and over because I'm unsure how to switch screens using the reMoM's layout. It's uploaded to SourceForge for you guys to try out (also includes a download for the .exe file itself in case you don't want to compile it)
reMoO Project
|
