Too Much OF A Good Thing?

[KingOfPain]

All my thoughts on this is still in napkin form (yes, I actually use napkins for notes) so I will just point out why this is a major concern and let you guys have a jab at it without my influence.

I fear, if AN puts out 2 new chapters per year as planned, it will break the RB community and other GW communities alike.

For sure, I will be buying chapter2, in one form or another. But looking six months (after chapter2) into the future, I am not so sure I will buy chapter3, or any chapters thereafter when I have not fully explored chapter2's contents and new professions yet.......

Even if the whole RBGW community buy all the expansions, it only helps to further decay this little group we have - knowing how hard it is to get a guild game together already. Imagine how desync'd we would be.

The one determining factor we chose to support GW over WoW is that GW has no subscription fees, which makes it easy for people who are on-and-off to be able to come back to the game and still sync and have fun with the rest of the community (barring major upgrades/expansions) - Take Diablo, for example.

I don't mean to stand in the way of progress just for our sake, however, this is not good for the future of the copmpany neither. There just won't be enough new buyers to populate all the new chapters, and most outposts in previous chapters will turn into ghost town.

I would like to hear your thoughts on this subject, especially what are the alternatives to having 2 chapters per year.

KoP

[Green_Gloom]

I would like to hear your thoughts on this subject

I fear for the quality and quantity of new content if 2 Chapters/year is going to hold. Especially once they get to Chapter 5/6 or so. How many new skills can they add without falling back on "an attack that does +2 damage"? Or new professions without making them too similar to the old ones?

Also, how much can they add without inadvertently creating a requirement to buy a new Chapter if you want to stay competetive in PvP.

They do of course have to balance between catering to the hardcore gamers and the casual ones.

[Lurker Wyrm]

I fear for the quality and quantity of new content if 2 Chapters/year is going to hold. Especially once they get to Chapter 5/6 or so. How many new skills can they add without falling back on "an attack that does +2 damage"? Or new professions without making them too similar to the old ones?

Also, how much can they add without inadvertently creating a requirement to buy a new Chapter if you want to stay competetive in PvP.

They do of course have to balance between catering to the hardcore gamers and the casual ones.

Agreed.

While getting enough character slots to cover both all classes and a PvP slot sounds great, if they keep doing that we're going to have a lot of account clutter down the road. At this point, I'd be satisfied with 3 extra slots so I could have room for the nudist/whichever variant we're working on, an Assassin/Ritualist (or vice versa) to unlock all their skills, and a PvP slot.

As for continuing expansions, we'll see how that goes. I know I'll be getting Factions, but after that is still up in the air (as was Factions until the previews started coming out).

[FoxBat]

I'm skeptical whether they can even try to pull this off. These are game designers we are talking about, notorious for either adopting a "when it's done" attitude and rediculous crunch sessions, or else delivering a very unfinished product. If it has taken them a whole year to get factions out, how do they plan to do future chapters in a mere 6 months? It simply seems too inconcievable to even take their claim seriously.

If they do try for this kind of thing, the results will be at the least unpolished, much like how Black Isle/Obsidian handled the IWD and KotOR sequels. That's a lack of polish that might be tolerable in single player games, but when you're online, bugs and exploits create balance problems (especially in PvP) and server stability issues. These are issues that only more testing time can root out.

[Havral]

I'm skeptical whether they can even try to pull this off. These are game designers we are talking about, notorious for either adopting a "when it's done" attitude and rediculous crunch sessions, or else delivering a very unfinished product. If it has taken them a whole year to get factions out, how do they plan to do future chapters in a mere 6 months? It simply seems too inconcievable to even take their claim seriously.

If they do try for this kind of thing, the results will be at the least unpolished, much like how Black Isle/Obsidian handled the IWD and KotOR sequels. That's a lack of polish that might be tolerable in single player games, but when you're online, bugs and exploits create balance problems (especially in PvP) and server stability issues. These are issues that only more testing time can root out.

I agree (Though KotOR2 wasn't really Obsidian's fault, it was Lucasarts'). I reckon all this talk about releasing expansions every six months is nothing but huff. The intention is there, but I doubt that the means is.

My prediction is maybe one or two further chapters after Factions, and then a lot more Sorrow Furnaces, so to speak.

Simply throwing expansions at a MMO isn't the solution. I sometimes play Anarchy Online with a free account (Yes, I'm a froob), and that means that about 75% of the entire game is out of my reach unless I plump for those expansions (Funcom keep pushing me to buy the expansions at a discount, however on reading the small print I discovered that to be eligable for these discounts I'd have to ditch my free account and purchase a fully-paid AO standard account. Bleh.).

Now, let's discuss AO a bit more. Do I want to buy the expansions even though everyone in the AO community claim that Shadowlands is where the real game lies? No. Why not? It's not because I want to experience what I'm missing, but I don't actually want to experience what I've got. AO vanilla is a very, very dull game - I spent literally over an hour performing a massive FedEx quest gaining nothing but paltry experience and, at the end, a useless trinket (The famous Leet Doll!). Ironically, the best part of the game is Newbie Island, the very first area in the game which if played right can set you for cash and nano programs for the rest of the entire game.

So basically, you can complete everything before reaching level 10, making the other 190 levels a pointless chore.

Anyway, I digress. If ANet keeps pushing the miracle that is an expansion, Guild Wars will became a hollow shell-game into which the meat of the universe (the expansions) must be poured into. People stuck in chapter 1 may become as resentful for Guild Wars as every froob in AO has become of that game.

[Seijin]

My feelings coincide with Fox and Havral.

Two new expansions a year that must be bought is stretching the game too far. Its been one year and Anet had to constantly balance skills, fix bugs (create new bugs and fix those), and update things like creature AI. The big thing about the game is supposed to be the PvP/GvG not necessarily the content or story part of the game. I think one chapter a year with new professions/skills for existing professions, along with skill updates should keep the main focus of the game alive.

As Havral stated, one chapter a year + a SF type of update is something ANet should push for. Not two chapters a year to buy.

I saw 11 guildies on last night (don't know if any were duplicates of some that were already on, but we'll say 11 anyways). Most of whom were doing the same thing. One group was doing nudist. I'm not sure if the other group was doing LDD. And some were helping out another guildie. It was really interesting. I wish we could get that many on more often to do things. Like KoP stated, if chapters are continually pumped out, we'll all get caught up doing our own stuff in different chapters and not have time to do things together.

EDIT: Also, I'm back in school and working, so there's no way I'm going to want to try and keep up with 2 chapters a year. Unless ANet REALLY wants me to have NO outside life at all. GW is great, but no way am I going to live in GW during all my free time just to play their game. No offense meant towards anyone.

[Zed-F]

I'd also agree that one major update and a minor update or two a year makes for a more realistic schedule. That would be more conducive to keeping things at a good quality level. If Anet really has extra bandwidth available on top of that, they should be thinking about making a new game, not expanding their current one faster than their customer base can support.

At my work, for my project, we usually have 2 major updates a year, but those updates are usually targeted at different customers, so some customers will standardize on one release and others on a different one. No customer buys every release. Unless Anet wants to make every chapter provide the content for all previous chapters (and why would they?) then keeping the release schedule slow enough that people have time to thoroughly explore the new content is in their interests.

[Drasca]

I am going to buy this expansion. I will not be sure if I have time for it.

If there are more expansions out, because I don't think we have power over ANet, I say let's try to collectively commit ourselves to getting what we have done before moving onto the new areas, as tempting as they may be.

Your fear of spreading out is valid. I say we try to maintain some cohesiveness if there's more to spread to.

[WarBlade]

Even if the whole RBGW community buy all the expansions, it only helps to further decay this little group we have - knowing how hard it is to get a guild game together already. Imagine how desync'd we would be.

In a way you started edging towards the answer with your later comment about "most outposts in previous chapters will turn into ghost towns".

Most of the guild is more or less at the end of the game and can access all the 'elite' areas. The moment that expansion hits we, like most of the other players around the world, will be lined up and ready for the starting gun. Essentially I see us all lining up to do pretty much the same thing at roughly the same time.

I can see your point about how more explorable space will create more fracturing of guild activities, but I'm inclined to also believe in the counter effect created by everyone piled up against the firm barrier that is the end of the (current) game.

I saw 11 guildies on last night (don't know if any were duplicates of some that were already on, but we'll say 11 anyways). Most of whom were doing the same thing. One group was doing nudist. I'm not sure if the other group was doing LDD. And some were helping out another guildie.

The helping out the guildie was pretty one-sided. Somewhat Zen lead a breakneck charge mowing down everything from Ranik to Serenity with Barrage. Desdemene des Morts occasionally chimed in with directions or a comment that targets were dead before her spell was finished. 8) Rolande Orgahn almost kept up with the monk and tapped ineffectually at targets that survived longer than a second and Half Moons came along to leech XP.

The LDD run went nowhere. We could only get three of us together and were short on firepower. Then I lost my connection before ever seeing the old king. Oh well. That three-monk and Ivy Foxifer run we did the day before seemed to be more the go eh?

[Hawkmoon]

Most of the guild is more or less at the end of the game and can access all the 'elite' areas. The moment that expansion hits we, like most of the other players around the world, will be lined up and ready for the starting gun. Essentially I see us all lining up to do pretty much the same thing at roughly the same time.

I can see your point about how more explorable space will create more fracturing of guild activities, but I'm inclined to also believe in the counter effect created by everyone piled up against the firm barrier that is the end of the (current) game.

The "ideal" schedule really depends on how the expansion chapters will be structured - WarBlade's post seems to be predicated on the idea that they will add mostly, if not all, high-end content. I don't know if you can answer this, KoP, due to NDA stuff, but is that the case? I had gotten the impression that Factions will cater to all levels - don't the Assassin and Ritualist get the equivalent of Pre-Searing training in a Canthan setting?

I like the possibility of having entirely new content that is playable from the start of a new character - otherwise it becomes a tedious rush through "old" stuff (PSA, Ascalon, etc.) to get to the new. I'd be surprised if all we want to do is take our level 20 chars into the new areas - I think we'll want to build from the ground up.

I agree with Zed that a schedule of one major update plus an SF-like addition would be good - though even that may be optimistic for A.Net. Two major updates per year would be insane. There's no way that I could keep up with that. I just don't have enough play time. Unless one was playing for several hours every day, I don't see how you'd have enough time to explore all areas before a new expansion came out.

On the issue of guild fragmentation, I honestly think that having LOTS more character slots would be the solution. Most of us have each slot devoted to a different primary profession; we're not willing to delete one of our precious characters to start a new one, and if a lower-level character of a guildmate needs help, we'd like to be able to add to a well-rounded team (i.e., different professions) of appropriate level, but are stymied by lack of character slots. If we had many, many more slots available, we'd almost surely be able to bring an appropriate match, and therefore there'd be more, not less, guild co-op play.

But back to the original question - I think one new chapter per year, plus a new explorable area, is ambitious enough for A.net, and wouldn't dilute the player base. More than that would be ridiculous. One thing that they might want to consider for building their revenue stream would be an "invite a friend for a month" type of deal - current players would get a key (only one) that they could give to a friend who doesn't play GW that would be good for a month - to get them hooked, you see. Then they'd have to pony up the $$ for the game. If A.net did this once a year, I bet they'd get enough new players to more than make up for any "lost" revenue due to not selling two expansion chapters per year.

Just my 2 cents.

Cheers,
Hawkmoon