City Specialisation - Science and Commerce

[Tom]

Hi everyone, its my first post so be gentle.

I used to play Civ 2 on a creaking old machine - and I would always win a conquest victory on some horribly low difficult setting, each game following almost the same pattern each time. I had to bypass Civ 3 because I didn't have a machine to run it, but my new computer and Civ 4 are a perfect match.

So far I've gone for all the victory paths except conquest and domination, and I'm thoroughly enjoying it. From struggling with the new, more advanced Civ on Warlord - I've learnt many things from reading reports, Sulla's walkthrough and anything I can find really. Now I can win nearly all of my games on Noble - which is still a poor show, but at least I'm making progress.

One problem for me is that in every game I play, without exception the city producing by far and away the most Science and Commerce is my capital. My Capital also has the most GPP, so it tends to the national epic. Can you see where I'm going with this?

My Ironworks city is never the capital, as I seem to be able to pick a location for the second, third or forth city with sufficient resources to really turn it into a shield monster. In one game as JC I was producing 1 turn tanks and modern armour in Antium - forge, ironworks, factory and power plus a stupidly good location (a few floodplains, and pigs) let me have a minimum of citizens farming while the others would concentrate on working the mined hills, and the nearby stone quarry.

Even this doesn't always seem effective though, as you can lose population points by having mines instead of windmills in the hills, and therefore have less people working. What do you suggest? A mix of windmills for less production with food, or just windmills to keep production with higher food, or just mines?

Either way, I feel confident with getting one city that can roll out anything pretty much instantly - but I would still welcome a few pointers.

My real concern is the way my cities invarably end up producing less beakers, and less gold than my capital, which already has my national epic - and so cannot accomodate both Wall Street and Oxford.

How do you turn a city into a bastion of intellect, or a goldmine? For the most part I understand that commerce is converted into beakers in a ratio equal to that of your science slider - so are the two intrinsicly linked? Will the highest city for commerce also be, by definition the highest beaker producer?

If so - how can I design a city for this purpose, what kind of land should it have, and so on. Obviously I know about the acadamies, libraries, universities and so on. I try to get them in all cities (not acadamies, they will only go in cities already producing a lot of beakers) - but still it is always my capital.

And if the highest in beakers is not always the highest in commerce - how do I design the two seperate cities to fulfil these goals?

Thanks for taking the time to read all of this - and remember, be gentle!

Tom

[theGrimm]

In my experience, commerce is commerce, whether you convert that into gold or beakers. Although, if you have limited production, you might want to focus on Libraries and Universities first (Intellectual), or markets, banks and grocers (Financial).

I like to over-improve my best cities in the mid to early game, in other words, improve more tiles than the city can work, so that I can move citizens around. e.g. if i want to build wall street, I move citizens onto the mines. And When it's done, I reinstate the specialists.

There's nothing wrong with cities fullfilling multiple roles, but the National Wonders do promote some specialisation. If your capital has a lot of good commerce tiles, rather put the epic in some other city with lots of food and which can support specialists, so your capital can have Wall Street and Oxford.

You don't lose anything switching city specialisation until you build the wonders, except if you're using cottages. Your capital, being older, may well have better developed cottages and therefor be better for commerce than a newer city. But a younger city can immediately begin producing GP at the same rate as the capital (provided it has the necessary pop and food, which is easy with lots of food resources).

Remember, once a GP has been generated, you GP points are set to zero again in that city. So as soon as that happens, you can send all the specialists to the mines at no cost

With regards to your capital being a commercial giant, it often makes sense; one of your early cities set to commerce can support a faster expansions; starting with three high production, low commerce city can grind you to a halt in no time.

[Sirian]

If I have a Shrine for my state religion or biggest religion, I usually put Wall Street in that city. National Epic usually goes to whatever city has the most wonders. The rest is by feel. It differs from game to game, and depends on your strategy. If you plan to go conquesting, then the location of Heroic Epic, Ironworks, West Point and maybe Red Cross are more urgent, while Oxford and National Epic are more urgent if you are heading for diplo or space.

- Sirian

[Kylearan]

Hi,

and welcome to Realms Beyond!

The map script tries to let your initial settler start in a good (above average) location, most of the time with multiple resources, fresh water etc., and even adds some things to the map to improve your starting location if it's too bad, I believe. This means that your capital city will always become a very strong city compared to other city sites, simply because its location had been chosen to be that way.

For the most part I understand that commerce is converted into beakers in a ratio equal to that of your science slider - so are the two intrinsicly linked?

Yes, although you have to bear in mind that the part of commerce that is converted into beakers is modified by the presence of a library, university etc., while the part that is converted into gold is modified by a bank, a market etc.

Will the highest city for commerce also be, by definition the highest beaker producer?

If all cities have the same buildings, yes. Most of the time, the capital will complete a library, a bank etc. first just because it's the oldest city, and in a good location, so that adds to its advantage compared to other cities.

And yet, you can found cities that surpass the capital in production or beakers, with some experience. Sites with a good combination of high food and high production tiles, like several flood plains mixed with hills/forests/copper/iron, can become a more productive city than the capital. Likewise, a city with lots of tiles suitable for cottages (flood plains, flat grasslands etc.), a river (for the extra commerce) and/or a lake/coast can be made into beaker powerhouse.

It's hard to explain; I guess it has a lot to do with experience and recognizing good city sites. Sorry.

-Kylearan

[Tom]

Thanks very much guys - I'm going to play a game now and see if I can put some of this into practice. I don't tend to build that many cottages anyway - but I'll build more than I normally would and see how I go.

Thanks again.

Tom