ReallyEvilNoobie [Pitboss 30 spoilers]

[ReallyEvilMuffin]

Placeholder!

Game Rules and Settings:

Server: pitboss.watto.no:2061

Game tracker: http://www.civstats.com/viewgame.php?gameid=2904

Claim your civ: (the password is sirian)

Game Host unified tech thread (for all Caledorn hosted games):
http://realmsbeyond.net/forums/showthrea...pid=494726

Host: Caledorn
Admin: ???
Map maker: Commodore
Starting date: Today!
Mod: None - BTS
Leaders/civs: Pick 'em

Map Settings:
Cylinder, Monarch, Standard Size

Rules:
- c. Events Off
- d. Huts Off
- e. Speed Normal
- f. Difficulty Monarch
- g. Barbs On
- h. See starts before picking Yes
- i. Version BTS
- j. Scout start Yes
- k. Banned: Nukes, War Elephants (except Khmer), Blockades, Diplo Victory, Great Lighthouse
- l. Not Banned: Corporations, SoZ
- m. Espionage on but no spies (if you get a Great Spy you use him for a Golden Age, Scotland Yard, or settle)
- n. AI diplo (Don't use city trades to signify stuff, no gold countdowns)
- o. No double-moving (don't be a jerk, aggressor gets to decide if they are first or second in turn order as long as it's not a double move, anyone who camps the end of the turn timer so their aggressor can't get the second half to be dogpiled)
- p. No unit trading
- q. No city gifts
- r. No tech trading

Dantski
Darius I Ottoman

2metraninja
Julius Caesar Viking

Gavagai
Louis XIV Dutch

Old Harry
Frederick Egyptian

Alhazard
Isabella Sumerian

R.E.M.
Wang Kon German

Molach
Stalin Mongolian

Greywolf
Zara Yaqob Spanish

Ipecac
Napoleon Native American

TheWannabe
Elizabeth Arabian

[ReallyEvilMuffin]

Well I am slightly interested where I will sit. Definitely been an interesting learning experience being here at realms beyond. The game is played differently everywhere so to speak. Gamespy is so adrenaline/agression hyped it is basically thought that libraries = death. Here it is all about the tech race and the build up.

My games here: pbem61 - a good breakout game overall I feel. Some poor moves by myself (I cringe when I think of the amphibious assault play, no wonder Jowy got pissed as it was a good move in some ways), I still maintain that the hammers he put into all that would have done far better on a WC charge. 4x50 ham galleys plus 8axes/spears makes 16 war chariots alone. He had another bluff stack to the west and other floating units - he could have had for the same hammer output about a 30WC stack that could have pincered many cities, I would have been dead in the water. This was what I was worried about most of the game (he could strike my cap from FoW in 2 moves) I also got outexpanded a little although in hindsight I do still genuinely think the land was a bit poorer than others.

However I showed that I can wage a war effectively beating the Jowy/HaK team and then Bob very quickly whilst Retep and cornflakes stagnated. If Jowy had not quit and HaK taken over I think I would not have done as well, HaKs aggression prevented his sheer numbers of units helping too much. I played to a gambit and got phracts early, although it was an obvious gambit. I then got my eco in order, some good city specialisation and despite crippling mait costs and being in war for most of the game got to rifles first.


PB21 (I think) was adrien and me playing spoiler to GJ almost. We quickly saw that he was going to block us in and basically be the only person that we could interact with on land. We had a decent start but there was vitually no hope for us with that situation, we had room for minimal cities before having to run a 2 continent empire, and Having nice choke cities between. We tried to break out and failed miserably. With hindsight I would have been more aggressive playing against GJ lack of chops and tried to get some victory that way, however I think we would have always struggled. What we definitely could have done better regardless was better communication between us (some mess ups of moves) and not loosing a city to barbs (although we lost a 95%) however I doubt we could have changed much. What was done well was a great defensive war completely burning the whip where we should have been the first to die really. However that is hardly a bonus!


PB27 so far - probably can't say much, although I feel like it isn't going badly.

[ReallyEvilMuffin]

Experience outside, a large amount of war waging especially. I think my eco planning though is sorely lacking compared to others here as I am not able to take the sort of time that people do and don't think I have the patience for it. Also I will contemplate interesting ideas and try them, because well they make the game amusing! Although even I would not go for a warrior rush :P

So I can play a solid game, but I will leave holes and gaps and could easily be made to look REALLY stupid allowing a lot of bluffs to go by. For the lurkers reading this would you like to troll everyone and give me Byzantium again with a cap on iron? Pretty please

[The Black Sword]

With hindsight I would have been more aggressive playing against GJ lack of chops and tried to get some victory that way

You don't think expanding to the northern land would have worked?

[ReallyEvilMuffin]

With hindsight I would have been more aggressive playing against GJ lack of chops and tried to get some victory that way

You don't think expanding to the northern land would have worked?

No not really. Had we put a much bigger effort in going up there then we would have been swamped by GJ late classical/early medievally I think. He said himself that he was planning war and the thing that saved us from his bigger empire was we also planned for war.

If we had gone hard on that landmass and not been attacked by him/held him off, it would have been very vulnerable to HAK/Gavagi who had everything up there and us with our mature cities relying on galleys to move units accross it. That's the way I read it anyway, would never have been able to maintain enough garrisons and been able to expand effectively enough I think. Plus if we did there was portugal who might have tried sniping with carracks earlier than needing to run decent coastal garrisons usually.

I don't see how anything but an early rush vs GJ could be competitive with that layout, but maybe I am too aggressive.

[The Black Sword]

Without hindsight, perhaps you're right, but my personal thinking would have been that a rush on GJ was really unlikely to succeed and the only chance to be competitive later was to expand hard north.

With hindsight, I honestly think that was one of the top 3 starting positions. HAK ignored the northern region for pretty much the whole game and Gav had to go through him first to get it. You would only have needed to protect that northern region from barbs. And hindsight suggests that defending vs GJ would have been easier than expected too, all you need to do is look like a less tempting target than a Viking civ which was really lagging behind.

[Commodore]

No BFC yet, but:

REM

Pericles Portuguese
Justinian I Japanese
Ramesses II Khmer

[ReallyEvilMuffin]

Without hindsight, perhaps you're right, but my personal thinking would have been that a rush on GJ was really unlikely to succeed and the only chance to be competitive later was to expand hard north.

With hindsight, I honestly think that was one of the top 3 starting positions. HAK ignored the northern region for pretty much the whole game and Gav had to go through him first to get it. You would only have needed to protect that northern region from barbs. And hindsight suggests that defending vs GJ would have been easier than expected too, all you need to do is look like a less tempting target than a Viking civ which was really lagging behind.

Very true with hindsight, but he ramped up unit production. We would have had 6 cities to his 14-15 on that mainland. I agree that MCG was awkward to plant further forward with, but at the same time it was a means to trying to go aggressive early and gave us a solid awkward front to defend. I wouldn't have planted that if I wasn't going on towards the choke steal however, and would have allowed for 1 more, 2 tops and us being much closer together. I can't see how we could have kept those cities pre astro no matter what we did, but I do agree that we probably would not have been bothered in that jungle. However also I think the redcoats would have come for us and I just don't see how we could have played it. (I am mindful we were set back a huge number of turns with an unlucky loss of the northern city earlier - until that we kept pace with GJ in city count but I do feel they were of poorer quality by far)

Maybe I am being too pessemistic, but the pyschological factor of that start was really galling. Very limited space for cities and being blocked in by a fine player in GJ who would not make easy mistakes for us and with warmonger traits. Most of our cities having BFC tundra and the other point was about3/4 of the food being seafood. Even with the exp bonus that was a hugely limiting growth factor. We needed huge amounts of boats. Off the top of my head we had just corn and sheep, and then a tundra deer south. This made all the early settles very awkward as our initial plan going worker first needed bronze working and we didn't have enough time to reach hunting. So the start was really hard to play too, probably would have been easier with FH boats, and building without fishing.

I probably mentally admitted defeat in that game early, and that played a part. But I don't think it was a top 3 spot, the initial moves and cities were not very productive and all that seafood is hard to get working (IMHO). But we certainly could have played it better. I did enjoy the warring though, and do like a survival fight! So I had fun, which is by far the main point of the game!

[ReallyEvilMuffin]

No BFC yet, but:

REM

Pericles Portuguese
Justinian I Japanese
Ramesses II Khmer

What is the map type? IE how much water? I assume a fair amount with GLH being banned. And does the war ele ban hold firm for Khmer too? (they are worse than prets as they are more expensive )

[ReallyEvilMuffin]

Settings vote post:

I'm pretty easy about most of these settings (as I've hidden the ones I feel strongly about ) but if any of them are a deal breaker for you then please say - especially the BTS/RTR/TOW choice.

- a. Most important is leader/civ pick style (snake pick/snake pick with India, Inca and maybe FIN banned/lurkers select 3 combos for each player/random three combos for each player)

- b. Then it's how the lurkers set the handicaps:
- b1. Lushness of capital (yes/no)
- b2. Nearby luxuries (yes/no)
- b3. Space (yes/no)
- b4. Neighbours (yes/no)
(edit: - b5. Different difficulty levels for different players (yes/no))

- c. Events (off/on)
- d. Huts (off/on)
- e. Speed (normal/fast)
- f. Difficulty (mapmaker's decision/prince/monarch/emperor)
- g. Barbs (off/on/raging)
- h. See starts before picking (yes/no)

- i. Version (BTS/RTR 2.7.x/RTR 3.0.x/TOW) BTS wins for compatibility.

Then if BTS wins:
- j. Scout start (yes/no)
- k. Bans: Nukes, War Elephants (except Khmer), Corps, SoZ, Blockades, Diplo Victory (accept/reject)
- l. Great Lighthouse (mapmaker's decision/on/off)
- m. Espionage (off/on but no spies - settle or start golden age with a Great Spy if you get one/on but no missions/on)

My votes are:

- a. Snake pick with bans

- b1. yes
- b2. yes
- b3. yes
- b4. yes

- c. Events: off
- d. Huts: off
- e. Speed: normal
- f. Difficulty: mapmakers decision
- g. Barbs: on
- h. See starts: yes

- i. Version: BTS

- j. Scout start: yes
- k. Bans: accept
- l. Great Lighthouse: mapmakers decision
- m. Espionage: on but no spies

Did I miss anything? If not over to you guys.

Player Roster:
- Old Harry (Fintourist is just going to Monday-morning quarterback me, no sandboxing )
- Molach
- Ipecac
- Gavagai
- Dantski (is Kuro going to lurk you?)
- TheWannabe
- Greywolf
- Alhazard
- Cheater Hater?

Actually ignore that. I can't see me not wanting to play Khmer if I can have eles... Now a cruel twist of fate puts no ivory near me I bet.