Accessory slot vs Armor slot

[Seravy]

I started thinking about this :
Some heroes have an armor slot in the middle, others have a 2nd accessory slot.

However I can't really see all that much of an advantage of having an armor slot.

Shield, Chain and Plate does have Large Shield, +1 defense or +2 defense added to them. However an accessory can also have +6 defense, and it can even have +6 attack, which the armor cannot. Both can have almost all defensive enchantments in the game. Armor also cannot have spell save, not that it's something I'd want on my armor. Aside from that, Clock of Fear is armor only while Pahtfinding is accessory only. That's about it. Can't help to think the accessory slot is superior. Movement and Resistance varies by armor item type, can be equal, better, or worse than an accessory.


Armor
Can have +2 defense or large shield compared to an accessory
Can have Cloak of Fear

Accessory
Can have up to +6 attack
Can have -1 Spell Save
Can have Path Finding

So yeah. I can't help but think having 6 attack is way better than 2 defense, making the accessory slot superior. Even if the attack stat is actually less important than defense. Or maybe I'm overthinking it again?

[Nelphine]

Differentiates heroes. For instance, I believe all of the first strike heroes use armor. Doesn't matter if it's better or not, it's part of what makes that hero who they are.

I firmly believe this should not be changed as it is part of what makes the hero types different, and the difference is not so big as to be a balance problem.

If you don't like it, don't hire heroes who use armour.

[namad]

Differentiates heroes. For instance, I believe all of the first strike heroes use armor. Doesn't matter if it's better or not, it's part of what makes that hero who they are.

I firmly believe this should not be changed as it is part of what makes the hero types different, and the difference is not so big as to be a balance problem.

If you don't like it, don't hire heroes who use armour.

I agree with both of you. Do not change which heroes use what. DO perhaps nerf accessories to lose maximum 1 attack or 1 defense or both. Something minor. I think you're right all the best items are weapons or accessories.
Another option, make armors cost less mana somehow. Perhaps armor should be 0mana base or something? who knows.

I do not think you should make the armors stronger though. Because like nelphine said some of those heroes are already really good. I think it's fine for armor to be bland and lack options, but to be a really really good way to convert treasure points/mana into defense.

[Tiltowait]

Because fighter heroes should wear armor? It goes all the way back to Dungeons and Dragons by Gygax and Arneson. Fighters wear armor, magic-users do not.

I just get the idea that Seravy is completely immersed in mechanics of the game and does not see any of the theme.

[Seravy]

Because fighter heroes should wear armor? It goes all the way back to Dungeons and Dragons by Gygax and Arneson. Fighters wear armor, magic-users do not.

That's obvious and I have no intention to change it. I just think the advantages of armor are way inferior to the advantages of the accessory. Or in other words, mage heroes are better than fighters, why? Are they even? Melee combat has quite some advantages. Ranged has, too. And it's not even that simple. Some mage heroes have an armor slot because they are half-fighters. Which means these heroes have 6 lower maximal attack power than heroes that have 2 accessory slots.
Oh well I guess it doesn't really matter. It's not that common to have the chance to create max stat equipment anyway.

On thing I realized...archer heroes have an armor slot. Which means on top of not having a bow specific version of might and arcane power, and having a far worse chance of finding a weapon to equip, plus having to deal with a ranged penalty, not to mention becoming instantly worthless against Warp Wood, they are even penalized by having a slot that cannot have attack power in it.

[namad]

Because fighter heroes should wear armor? It goes all the way back to Dungeons and Dragons by Gygax and Arneson. Fighters wear armor, magic-users do not.

That's obvious and I have no intention to change it. I just think the advantages of armor are way inferior to the advantages of the accessory. Or in other words, mage heroes are better than fighters, why? Are they even? Melee combat has quite some advantages. Ranged has, too. And it's not even that simple. Some mage heroes have an armor slot because they are half-fighters. Which means these heroes have 6 lower maximal attack power than heroes that have 2 accessory slots.
Oh well I guess it doesn't really matter. It's not that common to have the chance to create max stat equipment anyway.

On thing I realized...archer heroes have an armor slot. Which means on top of not having a bow specific version of might and arcane power, and having a far worse chance of finding a weapon to equip, plus having to deal with a ranged penalty, not to mention becoming instantly worthless against Warp Wood, they are even penalized by having a slot that cannot have attack power in it.

Yeah archers do kind of suck.

[Nelphine]

At the same time... I really really really miss a super archer hero for taking out sky drakes. All the champions are magic, which don't work at all.

[Tiltowait]

If you want to talk pure mechanics, armor is the best deal going. Heroes with high armor values quickly become invincible, unable to be damaged by most enemies. Get to about 10-12 defense, it gets hard to be damaged. 15+ defense, it's really hard. Add in the enchantment spells that you know heroes are going to get.

This is why I've come around on what I used to regard as the worst hero in the game, Theria the Thief. Her Agility bonus gets her armor up high quickly, and after that she just can't be hurt. Who cares what her offense is, if you can't be damaged then you can't be stopped.

[namad]

I think seravy had a game where he won on impossible by getting tactician famous thief combination going early on? Sounds dreamy.

[Seravy]

I think seravy had a game where he won on impossible by getting tactician famous thief combination going early on? Sounds dreamy.

It was extreme but yes. I would be losing that hero against the current AI though.
Regardless I consider the Thief the best early game hero for combat and I agree armor is the strongest stat in the early game. However what makes that hero so good is the Lucky on it improving the defense rolls.

Fortunately the AI is much better now at killing these heroes with tricks (crack's call, summoning a phantom next to it, or just doom bolt etc) but agility heroes are still the best thing. Well actually no, Soul Linker heroes are even better if you have Chaos Channels but not without.