Random Musings

[MrBiscuits]

Is Doomsday overpowered? The corruption isn't too bad, but the unrest is crippling. On my newly conquered size 15 orc city I had an unrest of 12. Luckily for me I have Stream of Life otherwise it would be game over.
Other wizards only seem to get a small amount of unrest in comparison (I'm playing on extreme)

Wave of Despair just seems to almost kill everything in one go. Am I missing something to combat this? At least with Flame Strike you can use Resist Elements or Bless, but with Wave of Despair it just seems to win every battle.

I looked it up and the formula is 240/(2+number of targets), so I suppose the idea is to always attack in stacks of 9? Although that means the spell is even more cost effective. 

It seems a lot better than Flame Strike though and I thought Chaos is meant to be the best direct damage realm. Wave of Despair is cheaper and by the time it is in use units often have more defense than resistance.


Mystic surge is pretty crazy. I got 12 enchantments on my beserkers the first time I tried it.

[Seravy]

Is Doomsday overpowered? The corruption isn't too bad, but the unrest is crippling. On my newly conquered size 15 orc city I had an unrest of 12. Luckily for me I have Stream of Life otherwise it would be game over.
Other wizards only seem to get a small amount of unrest in comparison (I'm playing on extreme)

The AI reduces their tax rates if the unrest gets too high. Did you?

Doomsday is a flat +5 rebels, so 12 means you also have racial unrest problems there. Maybe you're playing Elves?

Wave of Despair just seems to almost kill everything in one go. Am I missing something to combat this? At least with Flame Strike you can use Resist Elements or Bless, but with Wave of Despair it just seems to win every battle.

Wave of Despair does the most total damage on medium size armies (~4-5 units), and most per-unit damage on few units (~1-2 units). To counter it, use 9 units, then the damage to each is minimal (definitely much less than Flame Strike) - but you have to use units that aren't overly fragile - nonelite magicians with their 4 total hit points still get wiped out even by that minimal damage. An army of, for example, 9 Stag Beetles or 9 elite Halberdiers shouldn't particularly care about Wave of Despair.
The hard part is, you need to keep those units alive - if they get picked off one at a time by other spells (Possession, Black Sleep, etc) then the army size drops too low and WoD becomes a threat again. This is where Bless and the like should help immensely.

Also, Wave of Despair is more expensive then Flame Strike (albeit only by 10%).
(and current formula is 222 power not 240)

[MrBiscuits]

The AI reduces their tax rates if the unrest gets too high. Did you?

Doomsday is a flat +5 rebels, so 12 means you also have racial unrest problems there. Maybe you're playing Elves?

Ah of course, I was being stupid. Actually another wizard has cast doomsday and the other wizards seem to have a lot of problems now. Is it cumilative with multiple castings?

Wave of Despair does the most total damage on medium size armies (~4-5 units), and most per-unit damage on few units (~1-2 units). To counter it, use 9 units, then the damage to each is minimal (definitely much less than Flame Strike) - but you have to use units that aren't overly fragile - nonelite magicians with their 4 total hit points still get wiped out even by that minimal damage. An army of, for example, 9 Stag Beetles or 9 elite Halberdiers shouldn't particularly care about Wave of Despair.
The hard part is, you need to keep those units alive - if they get picked off one at a time by other spells (Possession, Black Sleep, etc) then the army size drops too low and WoD becomes a threat again. This is where Bless and the like should help immensely.

Also, Wave of Despair is more expensive then Flame Strike (albeit only by 10%).
(and current formula is 222 power not 240)

Ah that's very good to know. Thanks for the tips. 
It actually sounds like a fun game mechanic now I understand it properly. Might be worth updating the details on both spells in the Death/Chaos threads with the different values (WoD is listed as 240 damage and costing 55 and Flame Strike costing 60).

Next question....does stoning touch work on ranged with Focus Magic? A three strength magic attack from Cockatrices wiped out my Hero with one shot!
If so then that is the strategy for my next game sorted out.

[Seravy]

Yes, multiple Doomsdays (or Armageddons) are cumulative.

I'm pretty sure the help text is updated in the game. I'm planning to go through all the forum and doc text and update them all once the "experimental" version becomes the main one.

Yes, touch attacks work at range if the unit has or gains a ranged attack (and the AI is aware of this and uses the combo when able). They also work on thrown, breath and I think even on gaze attacks.

[MrBiscuits]

Yes, multiple Doomsdays (or Armageddons) are cumulative.

I'm pretty sure the help text is updated in the game. I'm planning to go through all the forum and doc text and update them all once the "experimental" version becomes the main one.

Yes, touch attacks work at range if the unit has or gains a ranged attack (and the AI is aware of this and uses the combo when able). They also work on thrown, breath and I think even on gaze attacks.

Well the game is looking amazing anyway. 

Wow, the attacks work at range. I can't get my head around thrown effects on ranged though. Gaze means each figure doesn't it? So focus magic Chaos Spawns must be particularly lethal on multiple figures. I guess Cockatrices are better on single figures as there is 4 chances of stoning.

[Seravy]

No, it's touch that works on thrown and breath, not thrown on ranged. Thrown is a "ranged" attack itself, it's not possible for a unit to have both.

Basically, if a thrown hero has stoning touch from an item, it'll use it both for the thrown and the melee attack.
Likewise, Gaze is a thrown/breath type attack that just has 0 attack strength and the special effect of "each figure must resist or die". If a unit somehow had both gaze and touch, then that would be an attack that does "each figure must resist or die, plus each 1 figure for each attacking figure must resist or die" instead. Again this isn't possible, as units can't gain gaze and those that have it can't gain touch. Except, Chaos Spawn already has both gaze and Poison touch, so it means it does execute poison as part of the game attack - but generally the poison damage is minimal compared to the damage dealt by multigaze.

Think of thrown, breath and melee attacks as if they were a ranged attack with only 1 range.

[MrBiscuits]

No, it's touch that works on thrown and breath, not thrown on ranged. Thrown is a "ranged" attack itself, it's not possible for a unit to have both.

Basically, if a thrown hero has stoning touch from an item, it'll use it both for the thrown and the melee attack.
Likewise, Gaze is a thrown/breath type attack that just has 0 attack strength and the special effect of "each figure must resist or die". If a unit somehow had both gaze and touch, then that would be an attack that does "each figure must resist or die, plus each 1 figure for each attacking figure must resist or die" instead. Again this isn't possible, as units can't gain gaze and those that have it can't gain touch. Except, Chaos Spawn already has both gaze and Poison touch, so it means it does execute poison as part of the game attack - but generally the poison damage is minimal compared to the damage dealt by multigaze.

Think of thrown, breath and melee attacks as if they were a ranged attack with only 1 range.

Ah I see, so in the case of the focus magic Cockatrices the target would have had to face 4 rolls to at -4 save for stoning but only the first figure. Whereas if it was Chaos Spawn all figures would have had to save at -4 but only once instead (in the case of the hero it would be better to face the Chaos Spawn). Is that right? I guess Chaos Spawn would always do 4 doom damage though.

Focus Magic Cockatrices and Chaos Spawn are lethal in that case. I will definitely try this out.

[Seravy]

Yes, correct, but the roll for touch is once per attacking figure, on the unit. For each failed roll, a figure dies, so if a Cockatrice attacks a halberdier, it'll kill anywhere from 0 to 4 full figures with the touch.

Gaze is a ranged attack, so you can't use Focus Magic to add a ranged attack to it. Instead, it'll raise the gaze attack strength by 3 (in case of Chaos Spawn that means the Doom part goes up to 7, in any other unit it just raises the "0" attack power of the gaze attack to 3).

[MrBiscuits]

Yes, correct, but the roll for touch is once per attacking figure, on the unit. For each failed roll, a figure dies, so if a Cockatrice attacks a halberdier, it'll kill anywhere from 0 to 4 full figures with the touch.

Gaze is a ranged attack, so you can't use Focus Magic to add a ranged attack to it. Instead, it'll raise the gaze attack strength by 3 (in case of Chaos Spawn that means the Doom part goes up to 7, in any other unit it just raises the "0" attack power of the gaze attack to 3).

Ah nice one thanks. 

I understand everything except focus magic raising attack power to gaze 3 for other units. So if I cast it on a spearman it will give it a gaze 3 attack as well as a ranged attack?

[Seravy]

I meant "every other unit that has a gaze attack" as Chaos Spaw has "multigaze" which is very special (it has 3 components)


A Gorgon would raise it's Gaze attack strength from zero to 3 meaning it becomes capable of dealing damage in addition to the "resist or die" effect with that gaze attack (albeit, at 3 strength that damage is not really worth anything).