Incarnation and summon champion. Should these remain rare?

[muxecoid]

Let's talk about Torin the Chosen(by whom?). I feel he is weaker, than in vanilla. You can not cheese a non-common spell as starting spell anymore. Torin is melee only without flying, flying units no longer suicide into him. I feel Torin is not THAT much stronger, than other champions anymore. Sure, he is hard to kill and a great caster and buffs your units well, but is it that good? Heroes got weaker in general. AI is now more dangerous and you do not have time to endlessly farm perfect items for your hero. I feel summon champion and incarnation do not really justify their rare status. In most situations I would rather have two efreets, than Torin.

[teelaurila]

Well-geared heroes can win the game alone (Not will, can). They might not be the cost-effective kill-all to "most situations", but when they do fit the situation, they can be unbelievable.

[Seravy]

The chosen one gives like +2 to all stats of all units in your stack. That's as good as an Archangel.
Summon Champion I don't know to be honest, I only use it once in a blue moon, usually my hero slots fill up without having to summon my own, and replacing a level 6-7 hero with a level 1 champion isn't that tempting. The heroes themselves are definitely worth it, but you can hire them for gold so I only use the spell in exceptional circumstances when I specifically need a type of hero I do not have to take advantage of some spell or item I found. Most of the time this happens in the late game as both good items and powerful spells (Regeneration etc) that would make me want heroes come later than Summon Champion.

[zitro1987]

Torin defintively still 'rare'

Summon champion I'm not too sure. It probably doesn't deserve over 2500rp cost, so it'd be borderline uncommon.
*or maybe re-evaluate a bit the hiring chance of heroes, possibly lower the formula.
*in that note, summon hero may need to be common and as easily researchable as heroic shout.

[Nelphine]

The right hero will win the game (not can, will).

I still refuse to heroes offensively because they're auto win buttons with found magic items, despite all the changes Seravy has added.

Those spells for me are for the AI. Facing the necromancer or Torin or the chaos warrior in the hands of the AI is absolutely worth a rare spell.

Strictly, summon hero (Torin/champions are just high end of the tier) in the hands of the human is probably worth an early rare slot, but that's silly. (Although my game without a hero offering to be hired until 1416 means that might not be a completely bad idea.)