[SPOILERS] Dark Savant leads the noble Inca as half-noble Churchiill

[Dark Savant]

I won't post PB38 spoilers here without spoiler guards, so anyone playing that should be able to read this.

I do have a plan not to get run over this time!

I'll also post a video here, just in case someone accidentally clicks here.  You know what, I haven't seen a Nyan Cat reference in a while.



I might put my password here too as well, but I expect not to need a substitute in an 8-player game.

I'll also change my thread title once I make picks.


Password:

n00btastic

[Dark Savant]

I can't make a civ choice without seeing a start, which I'm presuming should happen soon, since we already have a map!  

For traits, I'd like to play at least one of Charismatic or Protective, since they play differently in RtR.  Possibly both, though there's a good chance someone will grab Churchill before I can if I choose a civ first.

[Erwin]

Your start. Note that the corner tiles and fog will change:

[Dark Savant]

Thank you Erwin, that was fast!

I was concerned things would go slowly as I suddenly found myself with zero games to play in, but no -- this is already in the "I need to sim" phase, and the latest Master of Orion succession game also just started.

Okay, let's see.  Even without doing any sims, there's no way I don't take at least one of Agriculture (for that double riverside corn) or Mining.  Taking both is very much an option too.  If I don't start with Agriculture, I have to research that first.

ipecac picks first.  I'm not sure there's any way he does not pick the Zulu, unless his food is all seafood or something else similarly unlikely on a RB MP map.

I pick fourth.  Major options are:

• China: this probably works out the best, because of the starting techs, plus more.  I get cho-ko-nus!  And a cultural UB is useful, since it doesn't come late (and doesn't become obsolete!)  Decent chance it'll already be gone when I pick, though.
  
• Korea: start with Mining instead of Mysticism in RtR, so a top option, though I think it's somewhat weaker that China, mostly because seowons come online so late and cost a fortune in hammers if you aren't Philosophical.
  
• Zulu: if they somehow don't get picked ahead of me.  Uh, yeah.    Probably not happening, but I'll jump on top of that immediately if they do.
  
• French: Agriculture/The Wheel is a good way to start; musketeers are a good UU, and somehow the salon actually got buffed in RtR (did the French really need an increase in strength?)
  
• Ottoman: also Agriculture/The Wheel, also have a solid UU/UB pair.
  
• Egypt: this basically would be gambling I could take on one of the newer players with war chariots and come out ahead of regular expansion.  I feel it's a better play to go for regular expansion and take a later UU/UB (what am I going to do with an obelisk?), but it's worth at least thinking a bit about.
  
• Dutch: the best option if I want to gamble that the map has a lot of water.
  
• Carthage: also works for that if I want to hedge my options.
  
• Inca: plays well if I want to take Protective, and for grabbing an early religion by 8-player standards (after I have Bronze Working).  Another likely candidate to be grabbed before the snake gets to me.
  
• Arabia: this feels a little strange to consider, but this is a decent backup option to the Inca, only because they have Agriculture instead of The Wheel here.
  
• Mali: this particular start should work fine with Mining/The Wheel, and the UU/UB are good.  I'm not too enthusiastic about this, but it's up for consideration.
  

I think that's all I need to consider, really.  Ethiopia is out because I already played that.  Any other civ with Agriculture or Mining has what I consider to be a less playable UU/UB.  Sumeria I almost put on the list, but I really don't like the vulture's vulnerability to regular axemen.

Research pretty much has to be Agriculture or Mining if I don't start with either, and then Bronze Working.

[Dark Savant]

ipecac has to think about the start?  So it's not an automatic "pick the Zulu" position, then.

Aside from having a seafood-rich start, he might also have a forest-covered start that's asking for Mining.

I don't quite have an automatic "pick the Zulu" start either, come to think of it.

[Boldly Going Nowhere]

In this game, YOU are the steamroller! 

Lurking with interest. Good luck. 

[Dark Savant]

In this game, YOU are the steamroller! 

Lurking with interest. Good luck. 

Thanks!

I'm going to post lots of stuff -- again -- for no other reasons than (1) for the actual game, it helps get my thoughts organized, and (2) I just like to write.

ipecac spent a lot of time deciding on the Zulu.  He might well do that if he had my start, I think, so I'll avoid reading too much into that.

Mongolia was next -- Hunting/The Wheel start techs, so never an option for me, but would have been on my short list if I had double riverside pigs instead of double riverside corn.

That means I'm guaranteed one of China or the Inca (my current top choices), and France/Ottomans are also strongly worth considering.

Oh, and I don't see the point in picking a leader first at all.

[Boldly Going Nowhere]

Oh, and I don't see the point in picking a leader first at all.

Leadership matters.

[Dark Savant]

Leadership matters.

Do people actually take the Leadership promotion in MP?  SAD!

Let me consider my opening moves.

I have a clear-cut starting micro schedule no matter which civ I choose:

• t12: finish worker, start first corn form. (If I don't yet have Agriculture or Mining, that's done by now.)
  
• t16: first corn farm done, capital now at 12/22 food.
  
• t17: worker on way to other corn
  
• t18: worker starts second corn farm, capital grows to size 2, 2/24 food.
  
• t22: capital grows to size 3, second corn farm done ... I now produce 13 foodhammers without Expansive or Imperialistic
  

Subtract 2 from all times if Expansive.   Whether I produce a second worker or a settler after that depends on which civ and leader I have.

It does not help to get Bronze Working super quickly, since the improving the corn is such a high priority.  I may have time to research one tech before I really need Bronze Working.  So starting with both Agriculture and Mining is not the advantage it usually is.

Wait.  I can do this even with RtR-India's worst-in-the-game starting techs!  That's not really playable with different food resources, but it is here.  I should have thought of that -- that will still start out slowly because I can't get Bronze Working before about t31, but should catch up.  (Anyone else without either Agriculture or Mining worth considering?  Let me see ... Nope.)

I need to find out exactly when I can have Bronze Working by -- I'll work that out.

[Dark Savant]

It's my pick now.  India just got taken -- oh well.

Tech costs (I calculated these instead of actually loading the game, hope I did this right):

• 59 - Archery, Fishing
  
• 74 - Mining, Mysticism
  
• 89 - Agriculture, Hunting, Priesthood, The Wheel
  
• 119 - Masonry, Meditation, Pottery
  
• 149 - Animal Husbandry, Polytheism, Sailing
  
• 179 - Bronze Working, Monotheism