Japper tries again

[Japper007]

Ok here are the lists.  

The Archduke The Netherlands, Aztec,  Sumeria,  Georgia,  Pericles,  Scotland

Rowain Brazil,  America,  Mapuche,  Russia, Cree,  Spain

Japper Japan,  Nubia,  Indonesia,  Australia,  Persia,  Zulu

Chevalier Germany,  Rome,  Khmer,  Arabia,  Chandragupta,  Mongolia

Emperor England,  Macedonia,  Poland,  France,  Norway,  China

Welcome to my thread. If you are a fellow player you must have done something wrong or you are reading this a few months later to see how Japper screwed up this time, in which case you are also welcome

[Japper007]

So a strong list of civs, I see nothing I'd strike of the list immediately:

Japan:

Solid Builder choice with the discounted districts and boosted adjacencies. Also some good military bonuses on this map, with a good water combat bonus that works almost everywhere (Island Plates usually doesn't have a whole lot of big seas) and a smaller boost to land combat with the plus 5 on coastal tiles and easy GG generation.

Nubia:

Strong Military and Builder civ, almost too strong on the military front. I don't know whether I'd get much use out of Potato archers on Island Plates though, but the Archery bonus is always relevant and makes early chopping very strong when you have Agoge and Ta-seti for 100% chops. But then the  naval production policies are 100% by default.

Indonesia:

A fun pick on this map, one of the stronger Unique Improvements in the game (and THE best for sneaky culture victories out of nowhere) and a neat adjacency boost. It is the UU where Indonesia goes insane though, Frigates are the terror of water maps, as pbem4 and 7 established, and Indonesia gets it at Mercenaries at just a slightly higher cost and can faith purchase it, as well as what might as well be a permanent +5 strenght when in formation.  I'm going to test game that ship, I must be missing something or it is just the most ridiculous UU in the naval game.

Australia:

Strong Builder civ, but the only thing you get early is the Adjacency bonus (which also screws with chops). The coastal housing is nice too, it is almost impossible to not be coastal on an Island Plates. Don't get me wrong, it's a solid choice but it does seem a bit lacklustre in this list.

Persia:

Solid Economy boosts, but the military stuff really is irrelevant in MP where everyone can invalidate your civs ability by Dow-ing you and the UU is pretty meh.

Zulu:

Busa Shaka Iyo! Shaka Inkosi!   Also the best soundtrack on the entire OST IMHO.

That aside, I'm not really feeling this civ on this map. The only thing Shaka does is landwar and that will probably not be a deciding factor.

[Japper007]

As you may see while typing it up I started leaning towards Indonesia (not in the least because I'm half-indo myself), that is NOT my final desicion though. I'm going to take them for a spin a few times in SP before calling it.

[Japper007]

Dedlurks or just genlurkers are free to chime in of course.

[nuclearpotato]

Long time lurker, first time poster.

I'd be happy to dedlurk if you take Indonesia for a spin. No R&F or MP experience, but I used to play them almost exclusively on huge/deity/island plate maps before RL took away much of my civ time. That UI and UU are a blast 

[Japper007]

Welcome Nuclear Potato!

I had the pleasure of taking Indonesia for a spin in an online match today, boy that civ is strong.

It's decided:

I will play Gitarja of Indonesia

[Japper007]

Now that that is out of the way I'll go over some strenghts and weaknesses I've found in the civ:

Strenghts:

-Faithpurchasing boats allows you to do total nonsense things like faithpurchasing Quadrimes before you discover Mercenaries and then upgrading them with gold to Jonks a turn later.

- A religious strategy synergizes well with a coastal strategy since you need Astrology for Celestial Navigation.

-the free faith from coastal cities means you are all but guaranteed first pantheon.

-Your cities free up a lot of hammers as youi don't need to build a lot of ships directly

Weaknesses:

-Mercenaries is a long way to go without decent culture income, but I compensated with Choral Music

-Can't pursue other faith purchasing strats like Valletta or Theocracy since you need all the faith into navy.

My overall plan:

1. Invest in early Holy Sites for a crack at Choral Music and possibly DotF/Crusade
2. Build two harbors for early Cartography
3. Beeline Carto+Mercs
4. go ruin someones day with Jonks and Caravels
5. profit

Some Wonders to watch out for would be Great Lighthouse and Collosus, they line up nicely with going for early cartography and fast Harbors. Venetian Arsenal is banned or I'd plan everything around getting that.

[nuclearpotato]

Excellent! 

Some initial thoughts:

• Fantastic luck drawing Japan into your group--the only civ with both a naval buff *and* a religious buff. Otherwise, you were doomed to get no better than the second religion. But assuming the other players prioritize navy over religion, you should have an excellent shot at getting the first religion. First religion = DotF = Survival until the heyday of Jongs 
  
• As you said, a coastal settle all but guarantees the first pantheon. God of the Open Sea most likely (though Divine Spark might be necessary if you're worried about the religious race)
  
• Agree that Choral Music is the best second religious trait to pick. Get DotF + Choral Music, and the only thing you have to worry about is keeping up in science.
  
• Beelining Cartography may or may not be worth it--depends on the map. Early Celestial Nav is good, but not too early, since you want enough Holy Sites to take advantage of Harbor discounts. Beelining Shipbuilding for early Kampungs, however, is always worth it.
  
• The civic/chop game will be really important here. You can expect everyone else to do a lot of chops with Maritime Industries. You want to do a lot of chops with Maritime Industries *and* store up faith and gold for a Quad-to-Jong upgrade blitzkrieg on top of that. Play your cards right, and you'll have an overwhelming advantage in quality and quantity at that point in the game to make your move.
  
• The temptation with Indonesia is to play tall, and I've noticed from your previous games that you tend to play that way (or at least are a little slow to expand). I'd strongly encourage you to go as wide as possible. Indonesia is great for lots of cities crammed as tightly as possible on the islands that you find, while still having enough food and housing to get to size 7 or 10 (i.e., 3 or 4 districts). You want lots of Holy Sites, lots of Harbors, and a fair amount of Campuses. Theater districts aren't necessary, especially if you get Choral Music. Industrial and Commercial districts are less important than usual. Entertainment districts as needed.
  
• In short, go builder + Maritime chops till Jongs, faith-build more Quads/Jongs, loose them on the world, then snowball to victory     
  

[Japper007]

I'm bored so let's go over opponents and what I expect them to pick:

The Archduke The Netherlands, Aztec, Sumeria, Georgia, Pericles, Scotland

Player: even more if he picks Aztec or Sumer! Clear fovorite to win this game before it even starts.

Expected civ pick: Arch has remarked that he really liked Scotland and he is still thirsting for a good builder game, Georgia, Pericles and The Netherlands are just inferior builder options when compared to Scotland. Netherlands may be considered for de Zeven Provinciën though, but that UU hasn't impressed me so far. Aztec and Sumer are strong rushing civs, which is Archdukes speciality, but he wants to branch out into different styles it seems. So I expect Scotland.

Rowain Brazil, America, Mapuche, Russia, Cree, Spain

Player: Rowain seems a bit of a passive player to me, even with Sumeria he didn't play aggro like he should have.
Expected civ pick: Both Brazil and Russia are clear favorites for the passive sandcastle player, a strong econ bonus followed up by a clear win condition (their UU's). Mapuche are single player material, unsynergetic and weird abilities. Cree where surprisingly weak to me in my last pbem and America and Spain are just weak. I expect Brazil due to the naval focus of the map, wish I'd rolled them.

Chevalier Germany, Rome, Khmer, Arabia, Chandragupta, Mongolia

Player: Chev is the best builder in this group but he struggles on the tactical front a bit. His attack on me in pbem8 was pretty silly, you know an attack sucks when even I can hold it off...
Expected civ pick: There is a "Tall" civ pack of Rome, Khmer and Chandra, Rome is by far the best option of those; Chandra's UA doesn't work in MP and is actually worse than Ghandi's. Arabia and Mongolia are dominant titans of the land but I fail to see much strenght to them on Island Plates. If Chev picks Arabia we can expect a religious race. Germany is a solid all-rounder and this IS the type of map where there late game uniques (Hanzas and U-boats) come into play. From previous Chevalier play I expect him to go with Rome or Germany.

Emperor England, Macedonia, Poland, France, Norway, China

Player: Emperor is not the strongest player, I've seen him lack both on the builder and military front.
Expected civ pick: Emp pulled a pretty weak pool of civs. England and Norway are pretty mediocre naval civs. France is just bad. Macedon and Poland are more land-map tuned. The only decent pick here is China and Emperor K does love himself some Wonderwhoring, I expect he'll go with that. If he picks China I'm stricking Colossos and Great Lighthouse of the list, the risk is to great.

[Ituralde]

I'm glad you picked Indonesia, I loved them in SP and would have been sad to not see them on a water based map. They're made for it.
Hope you have fun with them!