Spellbook system change

[Seravy]

So while discussion retorts, we ended up with two ideas for minor changes to the book system.


Idea 1 :
Limit the number of starting retorts at 4 instead of 6. Finding retorts still allowed up to 6.
Explanation : The game is really meant to be played with books, not all retorts. Notice how none of the original default wizards had more than one retort. Retorts represent knowledge you obtained before the start of the game while books represent knowledge you obtain during the game. Thus, retorts are inherently better if chosen wisely, as they offer something you can right away, over something you obtain later. It also makes no sense from an RPG perspective to have a character start with already maxed out knowledge.
Actual uses of more than 4 retorts generally mean one of the following :
-Stacking cumulative retorts for multiplying the benefit
-Gambling on getting good spells from the very few available books, if not, losing the game
-Playing without spells entirely relying on normal troops and military/economic advantages provided by the retorts.
-Trying to design a "worst wizard" by wasting picks on useless retorts.

I don't think either of these are making the game any better at all.

Idea 2 :
Book 4 will contain 1 more very rare but 1 fewer uncommon, book 8 contains 1 more uncommon but no very rare. However this change does not apply to found books - finding your 8th book still gives you a very rare, instead the additional very rare will be missing from the 10th book.
Optional : reduce RP cost of Stream of Life. Possible swap the RP cost of a few other spells as well.
Explanation : It's much harder to find very rare spells from treasure now, and the AI is smarter at trading them, so the advantage of dual realms to obtain more spells from those sources is less relevant, thus they might need an additional very rare they can research. The 8th book offers the ability to guaranteed early research of a relevant powerful uncommon, which is a game changer, making the pick worth it even without an additional very rare, as well as jumping up from 6 to all 10 uncommons in one go. This pick thus allows early Werewolves, Giant Spiders, Gargoyles, and Aura of Majesty. Unfortunately Life has no such desirable early research as their low RP cost spells are not particularly useful for early game. So swapping RP costs a little might be desirable, in fact we might want to make it so that each realm gets two "useful early and low RP" uncommons, the second in the 640 RP slot.
Since guaranteed uncommons is not a thing for found spellbooks, those would remain unchanged and still provide the very rare earlier - finding a 8th book would be too weak otherwise. The 10th book can afford losing one of its 3 very rares, especially as it also provides bonus research and cost reduction.
This would mean the following table of book effects :
Book 01 : 3/1/0/0, 0/0/0/0, Find/Trade common
Book 02 : 3/2/1/0, 1/0/0/0, Find/Trade Uncommon
Book 03 : 4/3/2/1, 2/0/0/0, Find/Trade Rare
Book 04 : 5/3/3/3, 3/0/0/0, Find/Trade Very Rare
Book 05 : 6/4/4/4, 4/1/0/0,
Book 06 : 7/5/5/5, 5/1/0/1,
Book 07 : 10/6/6/6, 5/2/0/1,
Book 08 : 10/10/7/6, 5/0/2/1,
Book 09 : 10/10/10/7, 5/0/2/0, +8% research, -5% casting cost
Book 10 : 10/10/10/10, 5/0/2/0, +16% research, -10% casting cost

[Nelphine]

I like that finding a 10th book isn't as strong. Ideally, I think it would e really neat if finding the 10th book only brought you to 9 very rares - thus increasing the value of starting with 10 book mono realm. (If you also found an 11th book, you'd get the 10th very rare).

In general I like both ideas. However, you state 'book 4 will contain an extra very rare' but your chart shows book 3 with an extra very rare 

I would rather the fourth book get it, as that's probably generally better, but if the third book gets it that makes tri realms a lot more plausible. And with the retort change, I don't think the difference will be that big. Still I prefer fourth book.

[Seravy]

Fixed, thanks.

[Seravy]

Added these, question is do we want to swap RP costs on spells to make the guaranteed early research feature more relevant? (since that's the only thing besides having all uncommons you get from book 8, and we don't want to limit this to "pick werewolves, spiders or gargoyles and don't play 8 books with the other 2 realms." - although the 4 uncommons can be worth it, since most realms have very important uncommons in them.)

(maybe even define an additional cost 640 slot for each realm at the expense of an 1280 slot - and compensate by adding one more 1920 slot as well?)

Spells that could be much more relevant if researching early is an option :

Nature currently has Spiders and Land Linking and Change Terrain in the discount slots.
I think that's fine but Change Terrain needs to be even cheaper (at 960 I wouldn't rush research to get it early ever), and Nature's Cures can be another "nice to have early" spell with lower research (might be too OP though for that). 

Sorcery gets Aura of Majesty, Vertigo and AEther Binding in the cheaper slots, all of which worth getting early. Allowing early Flight might be worth considering here.

Chaos gets Gargoyles, Fireball, and Chaos Channels for low RP. Furthermore, while very expensive, early Fire Storm can be worth it anyway. So Chaos is probably fine (Fireball is not really worth it at 960 RP though, if we do add another low cost slot, this could go into it.)

Life gets True Sight, Exorcise and Sanctify. I don't think I would want any of these early except Sanctify but it costs 960 which is way too much to be a reasonable early strategy. So I think Stream of Life and Sanctify should be lowered here to offer good choices. Altar of Peace could be interesting as an early spell too. Early Unicorns can be a thing too, albeit their casting cost is way too high, they are a fairly strong unit (for the early game) and the resistance bonus can make a huge difference.

Death gets Lycanthropy, Drain Power and Syphon Life. Out of these I wouldn't want the latter two early, ever.  I can imagine rushing Night Stalkers or Shadow Demons also working, even at their current RP cost and they are definitely too good to cost less. I don't really see what could get reduced in cost here but many of the high cost options are so amazing people will want them ready as their first uncommon anyway.

Edit : I actually wonder if removing the uncommon from book 4 is a smart move, there are plenty of critically important uncommons we do want the AI to have most of the time. In fact I don't think we should remove it at all and should instead focus on making the 8th book guaranteed picks better.

[Nelphine]

I wouldn't add another early slot in terms of RP cost; considering I've rushed Chimera before (as literally first spell), you don't NEED to have super early to be relevant. Sure I don't expect anyone to be rushing chimera, but my point is that you don't need less than 1280 to do a viable rush.

I think it's completely reasonable to remove the uncommon from the 4th book. The AI does NOT generally only have 4 books in a realm, unless it's the very rare 5/4 myrran split. Typically dual realm AI have at least 5 books in both realms; the 4th book more often shows up as a 3rd realm, which is completely reasonable to miss out on uncommons.

Life is really the only realm that might want something for guaranteed uncommon; the problem is that for the human, commons are so good you simply don't need an uncommon, and the uncommons in life are purposefully weak. I don't think there's much you can do about that without changing the entire set up of the realm.

[zitro1987]

I've selected 1000+rp spells as the 1st turn guaranteed spells before. Transmute being a particular success.

I'd tread a bit carefully here, though I'm good for lowering stream of life, change terrain, and especially the fireball spell.

[Seravy]

Sure I don't expect anyone to be rushing chimera, but my point is that you don't need less than 1280 to do a viable rush.

I agree but this depends on the spell. Some spells are simply too late to be worth rushing for that much, others are definitely a good option.
The important thing is to provide every realm with at least 3, preferably 5 spells they can choose, not necessarily all cheap ones, but those should be among them.

I think it's completely reasonable to remove the uncommon from the 4th book. The AI does NOT generally only have 4 books in a realm,

The removed uncommon is returned in book 8, so ALL AI with 4-7 books in any realm is affected and loses an uncommon.
It's not just the AI - I would probably lose more games myself for missing key uncommons when playing dual realm. Overall, adding a late spell but removing an early spell isn't really an improvement, so if we want to actually improve the dual realm, we shouldn't be removing spells.

Ok, let's look at what I would or would not want to pick in each realm. (We'd want at least 3-5 green in each of them)

Nature
Crack's Call - Probably never, you need high skill for this to be worth anything.
Construct Catapult - Could be useful to break walls and conquer cities early but I don't see picking this. There are two wall breaking uncommons so relying on chance is good enough.
Ice Bolt - Not an important spell early.
Giant Spiders - Best choice by far
Change Terrain - I could see picking this if it was cheaper, for 960 it's not worth it. That takes almost 40 turns to get.
Land Linking - Yes, pathfinding is useful, so is the buff.
Cockatrices - Yes, but only for Focus Magic.
Transmute - Yes, would pick, although not actually research until like turn 100. Assuming RP income of 25, this would take 80 turns if started early.
Nature's Cures - Definitely good early spell but you can't afford producing RP when you're actively at war and need this, so this would need lower cost to be relevant. However since that would be overpowered, I prefer it to stay 1280 anyway.
Great Lizard - It's a strong regenerating creature, so this might be a viable choice as a second one after spiders maybe.

Sorcery
Counter Magic - Too expensive and nothing worth countering early.
Dispelling Wave - Situational, not an early pick.
Vertigo - Reasonably powerful combat spell, if you want to go the combat route.
Spell Lock - No, 8 sorcery means I'm not playing Life buff stacking.
Water Elemental - Maybe, it's a fairly good unit for the early game, with decent armor and ranged power. Takes 50 turns though with that RP cost, and by then it's likely not that outstanding.
Flight - Definitely would if it was cheaper, a flying, tanky unit when the AI is still low on casting skill can be a nice way to win battles though spell spam.
AEther Binding - I want this to be ready even if I can't afford it right away.
Spell Blast - Late game spell
Aura of Majesty - Definitely the top choice in this realm
Phantom Beast - Expensive and not that game changing unless you can spam them.

Chaos
Lightning Bolt - Is just a direct damage spell you can use about once a
Fire Giant - No, this is a decent creature but Gargoyles are so much better it's no competition.
Chaos Channels - Yes, it is one way to gain flying ships, and is a useful early buff
Mystic Surge - Gambling is not for the early game.
Gargoyles - By far the best choice here
Fireball - Wouldn't for 960, as Immolation is better then. Might be worth it for less RP.
Fire Storm - So powerful I usually pick it even though I can't research it for a while.
Raise Volcano - I could see peaceful strategies wanting this early, if it costed less RP. Actually, as it can destroy outposts without an attack, it might be a good spell to have overall at lower RP cost.
Immolation - A viable choice if you have Gargoyles.
Chimeras - I tried and it does not work, yes I could research and summon them but by then they actually died in battles...

Life
True Sight - I can see myself wanting this early for hero strategies.
Stream of Life - If it was less RP then the growth boost could be relevant. We nerfed this spell, why is it still in an above average RP cost slot?
Resurrection - You don't plan for losing heroes early.
Exorcise - Kinda weak spell
Divine Order - Expensive but if you do buff strategies, it can be worth going for
Unicorns - A fairly good unit early, and your only option if you want to go the summoning route, but at this RP cost I don't think I would do it.
Raise Dead - No, needs 40 combat skill preferably multiple times.
Sanctify - Would pick if it was less RP and I was going for a peaceful strategy
Altar of Peace - A fairly powerful choice for a peaceful strategy to have early, but not for this much RP.
Prayer - You only get this researched much later but would pick anyway.

Death
Possession - Not as great early as later, you only get one shot, if it fails you lost the battle. Also costs high RP.
Lycanthropy - Great early rush creature
Black Prayer - Not really relevant to have it early, you can't afford the 35 cost plus more spells to take advantage of lowered resist.
Syphon Life - I could see myself using this early to make undead if it was cheaper. Still, Life Drain can do the same and is more cost effective on low resistance so not really a relevant spell early?
Night Stalker - Early invisible unit with death gaze? Of course useful!
Repear Slash - Just a direct damage spell
Wall of Darkness - Enemy isn't going to attack with ranged units early.
Blood Lust - If I picked Werewolves, but never really been able to research it quickly to be relevant.
Shadow Demons - Not as great without Plane Shifting but now with Bless not working on it, it can be a viable tactic
Drain Power - No.

[Nelphine]

I think you underestimate flight. I've based things on flight before even at the current cost. Flying ranged units are crazy good on offense, and that early, you can just use it overland a few times instead of the combat version and the AI won't have enough spells to deal with more than one of them. It's risky, but works very well.

True sight is useless that early. You can stop... Nightstalker a and air elementals (so, neutrals with armor piercing and death gaze - better have such high movement you are the same as teleporting, and ranged attacks. Not realistic. Better to just have bezerkers and resist magic and bless ) everything
 else is rare tier, so isn't needed thst early, and psionic blast which is only dangerous to weak units you wouldn't buff anyway, or if the ai can spam it - they can't, magicians come too late, and they don't have enough innate skill.

Spell lock should be yellow at least. Sorcery buffs are even more important than life buffs, as they let you win battles with a single unit. But they come into play later so probably not green.

Mystic surge is strong enough even with gambling to be yellow. Just send spearmen and one of them eventually takes out an entire enemy fortress.

Fire storm I would never consider picking early. Yellow at best.

I've done extreme early raise volcano. Yellow at best. Even getting it on turn 8 just doesn't actually matter compared to corruption. (The economy isn't strong enough to win, and corruption has same offensive potential that early.)

Chimera yellow. I'm not sure what manages to kill 9 chimera that early (you definitely can't penny packet one chimera here or there - they're raw force so you need numbers for them to matter) but it's soo hard to get enough that early.

Stream of life: because the ai already grows stupid fast. If you can rush chimera, you can rush stream of life. But rushing outpost growth, several latches ago, was never a worthwhile strategy. With the buff to stream of life (decreased cost), that might be viable? But I feel it's more likely a trap, because it's still not a summon (or a game changing buff like flight or focus magic or endurance) or an overland you only need to cast once.

Raise dead with some strategies is amazing even sub 80 skill. There are times (probably 20% of the time) I cast it instead of prayer. It should be yellow. 

Sanctify and altar of peace are both major risk picks regardless of rp cost. Get multiple ruthless/maniacal/chaotic opponents and they're both useless.

Possession is so powerful it should be yellow. Same as mystic surge. Also this stage of the game city units are often the core of enemy armies, so the earlier you get it, the more relevant it is.

[Seravy]

I think you underestimate flight. I've based things on flight before even at the current cost. Flying ranged units are crazy good on offense, and that early, you can just use it overland a few times instead of the combat version and the AI won't have enough spells to deal with more than one of them. It's risky, but works very well.

True. I think we can mark that green then. For some reason I was thinking "if i have a flying unit, I can spam phantom warriors" as the strategy. Putting it on bowmen is way more effective.

True sight is useless that early.

Heroes Psionic Blasted to death beg to differ, but yes, you are right. For that, you cast Healing. Against Phantom Warriors, you don't enter the AI's half of the battlefield.
And in either case, if you see a Sorcery enemy, you can research this for a higher cost while waiting for a hero to show up... or even make it an item.

Exorcise is also kinda useless early - ok so I can kill half of a War Bears unit for 640 RP? That's not gonna help. Maybe we should consider it to be -2 to save if we make it a higher RP cost? Now that Bless is no longer there against Shadow Demons, that could help. I don't think I ever used Exorcise as is unless I got 0 resistance as the effect on a Warp Creature.

I'm not sure what manages to kill 9 chimera that early

9? It takes 8-10 turns to summon ONE, it a very expensive creature. I was obviously using only one or two. It was killed by some buffed swordsmen and star fires spam from a life wizard I think.

Sanctify and altar of peace are both major risk picks regardless of rp cost. Get multiple ruthless/maniacal/chaotic opponents and they're both useless.

Only for Chaotic. Sure but if you did choose to play peaceful, and you can't, you lost anyway. It doesn't matter if the game was unwinnable for the strategy in the first place.

Mystic surge, you'd specifically need to roll Magic Immunity and a dozen other buffs to have a shot at a fortress, and you'd need a stack of 9 spearmen for each try (as ranged defenders kill them all). Said spearmen even have to make it alive to that place. Even if you get lucky, you can't repeat that for later opponents and have no force to hold that city. I don't think this is a viable strategy, more like something you'd do once on low difficulty for fun.

Spell Lock you don't pick because Sorcery buffs are situational. There is no guarantee you actually need any, unless it's to pair it with Flight ofc. (but that's a bit too much to research and cast early, both are 100+ cost spells)

[Seravy]

So, without changing RP cost slots, we can...

Swap Blood Lust and Drain Power. This is about the only thing we can do for Death, and it would maybe even help the AI counter buffed stacks with it better, if we also update AI research order to get this earlier.

In Life we can move both True Sight and Exorcise up. So we ultimately have all 3 cheap slots open, but 4 spells that could benefit from reduction : Sanctify, Altar of Peace, Unicorns, Stream of Life.

3 of these are spells good for peaceful strategies only, one is good for combat. So I think Unicorns must be included, and probably get a larger reduction. However Unicorns are a far too good and expensive creature for the 420 slot I believe. Ok, technically they aren't stronger than a werewolf, but Life is bad at summoning, while Death is strong. Well, ok they also don't regenerate and you can't heal them (too much health for Healing to be very effective) and cost twice as much per unit so... maybe?
Doing that would however allow Life wizards to rush to a summon and play a summoning strategy instead of buffs, and we wanted to avoid that. Heck, a Teleporting creature with Chimera's health is anything BUT an early unit. In fact it might be worth it at the current cost even. So that leaves the other 3 spells for the low cost slots.
Altar of Peace is probably best for the 420 RP slot? You can benefit from it if you cast it before contacting other wizards. It might be way too powerful for that though. In fact this really worries me, I think both Altar and Stream are spells that can easily make you spiral out of control, and this is especially true for the AI. An AI with early altars and streams would be ustoppable.

In Chaos I don't see much we can do, we have two spells that need to be lowered, but nothing to move up. (Maybe Chaos Channels? If Flight is worth 1280, this too, right? idk... so I feel Chaos would need to break out of the existing RP cost slot system to be improved.

Sorcery has 4 spells worth picking and nothing else we could really want instead, water elementals aren't that great. (or wait, do they have Weapon Immunity? If yes then they are actually worth it in the 1280 slot.)

Nature is good as is, albeit it really could use cheaper Change Terrains. Still it's hardly essential, even if playing peaceful, you'll want to use Sprites first, and can wait for the 960 RP. Marking it green.