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[LURKERS] Civ 6 PBEM 15: May the Odds be Ever In Your Favor

Made lists of all civs in Excel, split based on Gathering Storm, R&F + DLC, and base game civs. I then sorted each list randomly. Then sorted the roster randomly. Then took the top 1, 2, 2 respectively from each civ category and assigned to top player; gave the next 1, 2, 2 to the 2nd player; continued for each player in roster. Result:

Pindicator (PDT)
Incan
Dutch
Scottish
Roman
Arabian

TheArchduke (CET)
Maori
Georgian
Mapuche
Egyptian
Japanese

Woden (CDT)
Phoenician
Persian
Polish
English
Khmer

suboptimal (EDT)
Swedish
Mongolian
Australian
Spanish
Greek

CFCJesterFool (CDT)
Ottoman
Zulu
Nubian
Russian
American

Somebody please give this a sanity check. Let's make sure that they have all settings nailed down before we post options so it doesn't get messy advocating for things that favor one of the sets.
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Going through and looking for civs I've heard good things about:

Pin has Rome, he's fine. Interested to see if he tries out Inca or Dutch.

Archduke has Maori, which gets some very powerful early stuff but depending on settings also gets the Ocean Start. Japan has done some good things at RB. I'd enjoy seeing the GS buffs to Egypt in action (Sphinxes, flood immunity, Maryannus no longer block the Knight timing attack) but am not holding out hope.

Woden gets Persia. Maybe an outside chance on Poland or the ever-mutable England.

Suboptimal has Mongolia and Australia.

Jester has Russia. He could also pick Nubia, Zulu, or Ottomans, or (given his Spain pick in the naval PBEM) try playing the World Congress game with America.

I'm most worried about Archduke's roll, but even that's not completely awful. Woden's is the least flexible, Jester's the most.
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It doesn't make sense to reroll archduke's civs because of the imbalance of the map anything that's not completely awful cuts it. Maybe if Ocean Start causes problems re-roll Maori from the remaining list of legal civs but that's it.
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I think everyone has some viable options. In addition to what QB noted, Mapuche could be really strong given how often everyone gets Golden Ages in these games, and Archduke knows just what to do with a combat bonus. In addition to Persia, Poland and Phoenicia have interesting possibilities, I think (Poland's Market unique is actually pretty good in R&F, since you have to build Markets in order to get trade routes, and gold is critical in multiplayer). Suboptimal has two really strong choices, and Jester is absolutely spoiled.

Since we're embracing the randomness, I think this is a good selection.
I Think I'm Gwangju Like It Here

A blog about my adventures in Korea, and whatever else I feel like writing about.
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Just out of curiosity why not 2 GS civs per player? Shouldn't we want to encourage picking new civs?
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Good question. Because I was just tossing off an idea and wasn't sure if there were enough GS civs for 2 per player.
I Think I'm Gwangju Like It Here

A blog about my adventures in Korea, and whatever else I feel like writing about.
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From what I saw there were only 8 new civs, not enough for 2 each in 5 player game. If we re-roll I’ll be re-rolling everything not just 1 players choices. Speak now if you think we should re-roll. Once they lock in the map script I’ll post their Civ options.
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I'm a vacuum these civ choices all seem fine. If we are rolling a random map however are there any that get starting biases which make them less viable?
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For start bias, Russian tundra and Maori ocean stand out as noteworthy.
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Banned list commentary:

Nan Madol: Gives way too much culture. You can see that in my Epic 2 victory the ridiculous drops and it would be even worse for someone who was optimizing in a serious MP game. It's very similar to Scythia and VA that it gives you double--it should give you one culture not two. 

VA, Scythia: No commentary needed. Double stuff is way too much for this game to handle. Maybe for a tactical wargame like Age of Wonders where you can BS things but here you just die. VA might be okay on Pangea but it doesn't make sense to unban it for just one map type.  

Hungry: +2 movement. Other civs can technically do this but there's no way to trigger it. You can also use enemy roads in this game. It's basically turn 0 Super-Cossacks that last through the entire game that would consist of Rape (take out army), Pillage (get science!) and Burn (razing due to finite luxuries). 

Picks by Civ: One Greece leader is clearly better than the other and the other two leaders are totally worthless because their abilities are impossible to trigger (just DoW). Can you culturally flip a city-state? One of the extra leaders might be useful in this format then and Woden might pick her. I don't like the No DoWing city-states rule that caused that so that really doesn't count. 

No DoW city-states: I feel raiding is the true culprit and that should have been banned. They just don't want to play the same game over again (rush the city-states).

Stuff that didn't get banned but considered:

Australia, Multi-unit blockades, DoF, Raiding (expect farms and fishing boats), Disasters, Anyone who can get +2 movement, Occupation variant rule, Sumer, Rome & Russia 

Australia: Implict collusion. It only takes one d-bag to declare over and over again to give Australia double production for the rest of the game while they are dying. This is not a theory and would have happened if Archduke posted his thread because Sub offered Rowain 1g for 1g.

Multi-unit blockades: Dumb and easily removeable because you cannot deny guilt. Didn't happen because DoF is worse and not banned.

DoF: Gives someone a free unstoppable first-strike. Not removed because you do it to yourself by proposing.


Raiding (expect farms and fishing boats): Implict collusion. They keep repairing because they are annoyed at a third party. This could actually happen like with Australia--two civs fight eachother to the death while a third civ comes in and raid-farms and the team keeps repairing (no worker-charge spent). 

Disasters: Wanted to remove but couldn't. PREPARE FOR SALT!!!!  mischief 

Occupation variant rule: One settler plant in someone else's backline means the person who killed you cannot use your cities. Very bad, big problem and we should have found a creative solution but no going back now. At least the salt will be good. smile

Sumer: Now that you start right next to someone they might be too much. Didn't matter here because no-one got them this game. 


Rome: Very strong, not seriously considered on banned list for GS due to power-creep. 


Russia: Cossacks come too late to ban the civ even through they are broken (effectively equal to a commando in civ4). I value being able to win games you shouldn't very highly. That's what truly powerful civs can do, but Cossacks are too late.

Edit: Forgot about "Anyone who can get +2 movement". Other stuff not on the banned list is much more powerful but I considered banning it because +2 movement is dumb and shouldn't be possible ever. Like Biorhythm being much worse than other EDH cards but being ban still because it shouldn't be possible to do 100+ damage off a single card.
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