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As a French person I feel like it's my duty to explain strikes to you. - AdrienIer |
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(SPOILERS) Amicalola and Irismono Try Their Best
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Loaded up the thread today, as well as the voting doc, and what's this? I have a dedlurker? Glad to have you on board, Irismono! (Unless I've misread somehow. That would be, uh, embarassing.)
Equally importantly, it's my turn to pick Civs, so I will do that in the next couple of hours when I have a little more spare time.
I like Mali a lot for a civ, skirmishers will be good for not getting clobbered by a vet early on, and mints are just a general Nice Thing To Have. Inca is also just known as good, hence the crazy point restrictions. Mao of Inca seems another strong choice, what with expansive granaries. I would be stuck with protective, but that's the price I pay for a fast growth curve. In fact, writing about it now, that seems like the choice to go for. Of course, if someone else takes Mao before I get the chance, I'm, well, screwed. But really, how likely is anyone else to pick a protective leader? They don't exactly scream "Big Wins".
Basically a pretty big risk, with absolute disaster if I get called, but hopefully that won't happen. Irismono, sorry for not waiting for your input, I just don't want to hold the thread up!
Some preliminary thoughts about the starting techs, since I'm playing as Inca no matter what now. Mysticism seems like a pretty awful starting tech, what with food being king in BtS, but I have to imagine it's LESS BAD when we also start with agriculture, since that puts us on the path to basically every food improving tech out there. So the question is, considering we start with agriculture, is an early religion worth it? Terraces reduce the culture benefit a lot, but the happiness could be nice, no? Or is it a silly little waste of time when we should be focusing on things with more tangible results, say Axemen?
Sorry for the late response, I got sick a couple days ago and have been catching up.
Mao of Inca is a pretty good choice, I would snag it. Regarding Research: I view early religions as putting a target on one's back. So in this case Mysticism sucks. While we need to see our start before we make our final decision as to tech path, I'm currently thinking Pottery for Terraces and Cottages is our best option. Followed probably by Bronze Working for security.
No problem, hope you're feeling better!
 Not a great time to be sick at the moment..That's lucky considering I snap picked Inca, lol. I think we're going to have to just push an early lead and get a snowball rolling, because a lot of these picks will obviously crush us economically post-early game. Elizabeth of Korea looks particularly scary in that sense, might need to consider rushing her, even if it screws up our game plan. Yeah, I pretty much agree on all tech ideas, down to Pottery-BW. Appreciate the input though, and glad to have you on board. Neighbours also important for tech path I think, some look really aggressive (Egypt, Rome) and some passive (Korea, Netherlands), with others in between. I will attempt an analysis of all the leader/civ picks once they're finalised (like many people I think, I am starting to lose my mind from isolation boredom/stress duality), although we will see just how accurate that turns out to be based on my lack of experience.
So this is the start. Decided to settle in place to get the three food resources, especially since it's already on a plains hill/river. I could be persuaded to research animal husbandry, meditation, or mining first. Depends on whether we want to get BW in play ASAP, or improve the cows, or grab a religion.
Decided to go for animal husbandry this time, since I'd rather improve the rivercows than the dry wheat first. Probably going to go Mining -> BW -> Pottery after that, but we'll see. Let me know if you have any thoughts!
Decided to also do some thoughts* on opponents picks, better late than never!
Superdeath: Shaka of Rome Eep!  This guy is probably planning to absolutely steamroll someone in the first 100 turns, then ride that to victory. It's his only option really with those traits, he's a bit like us in that he's a one-trick pony. If we start next to Superdeath, we... die? I'm really not sure what we could do against an aggressive praetorian rush. especially since our strategy somehwat necessitates rapid expansion. We'd be a great balloon to pop. Will try to avoid this guy at all costs for the first period of the game, and at worst we need to try to look less tastey than his other neighbours. Again, with our traits/gameplan, that might be tricky to do... GeneralKilCavalry: Napoleon of India Less obviously threatening to me early on. He's a vet (actually runs the discord I found this game on), so slightly wary in that way. This seems like a very lategame kind of combination. Has India which is obviously spectacular, there's a reason India and Inca are so expensive. Starting techs aren't great but he'll be able to research food techs as he goes without any issue, most likely. Lategame he'll be very scary with those charismatic promoted units, plus fast workers to road underneath them. Kind of the opposite of Superdeath, I'd love to start next to him, but it will be tough to stop him if he's able to run over a green or two later on. Hopefully I'm not that green. Giraflorens: Ramesses II of Persia Less sure what to make of this one. Ramesses is the only spiritual and only industrious leader in the game, which is a pretty big deal. If he can keep up in land and tech, this guy will have access to basically any wonder he wants, no questions asked. He can also switch civics at will where no one else can, which is nice, although only later on. Seems like another guy who'd be great to start near, we can try to squeeze him with our expansion advantage and immortals (in my (limited) experience) are only good against archers, spears kinda ruin them. Much better on defense than chariots, and a bit on offense, but not enough to make up for his lack of early game. I Think™. Vanrober: Kublai Khan of the Zulu Ok, this is another big no with regards to potential neighbours. Creative, impis, aggressive, being close to this guy would be a nightmare. I think ikhandas are pretty good, but they're about the only late game edge this guy has, so like us or Superdeath, he'll need to make something happen early on. Midgame at the latest. Not as scary as Superdeath, but I still hope we don't start near him. Laztueq: Pericles of France Hmm, I'm not really sure what to make of this. Creative is nice, philosophical I can't imagine being that good without tech trading. France is great, maybe he'll tech to musketeers (which are pretty quickly obsolete but maybe better with a beeline?) and then try to hole up for a cultural victory? That's my best guess. We should consider him another target for midgame snowball rolling. Amicalola: Mao Zedong of Inca Wow, get a load of this guy! From what I can tell, he's basically figuring out multiplayer norms as he goes, and guessing half the time. Picked a civ built for fast expansion, but he's almost never defended against humans before. Can't wait to see a vet pop him like a balloon.  Mjmd: Elizabeth of Korea I take it back: THIS is the uber lategame combo, for th game at least. Elizabeth is up there as most efficient pure economy traits in the game, take that and add seowons for some extra research, hwachas to help not get crushed before then (I'm still a little skeptical on that front), and Mjmd has a pretty clear strategy. Survive until Medieval/Renaissance, have a couple of golden ages, win. It will actually work pretty well, if no one troubles him seriously until then. We need to keep that in mind going into midgame if we run out of land: MJMD is up there as the tastiest target, and also the most unwise to leave alone. Ramkhamhaeng: Wang Kon of Mali Ramk hosts this game, and apparently all RB Pitbosses. Thankyou! He's another late game leader, but with slightly more bang in the early game thanks to Protective skirmishers. He could get a pretty good choke off on someone if he tries. Hopefully that someone isn't us, I guess. Later on he'll have mints, which are nice, an financial is obviously great, so he'll be able to run a more efficient than average economy, if not as good as Elizabeth. Basically trades some late game power for notable early game, which I think is a deal I would also take. El Grillo: Hannibal of Egypt El Grillo posts a metric tonne on his thread, so he's clearly thinking pretty hard and invested in the game. Charismatic/Financial seems like a crazy trait combo, and he'll be another late game power to watch, and he'll have early happiness, and war chariots, and an early great prophet, and he's invested, and... Yeah, El Grillo is definitely one to watch. I wouldn't be at all surprised if he wins, he's a jack-of-all-trades and master of some as well. Plemo Ragnar/Netherlands Lucky last! I'm... scratching my head a little at this one. I'm sure there is a reason to pick those traits and civ, but I can't work it out myself. Must be missing something. Dikes are good I guess, but you need water and they come so late! Exact same with The Ships. Meanwhile, financial is great, blah blah blah, but aggressive seems pretty lackluster without planning an early aggression, which I'm 99% sure Plemo isn't doing. We'll see, I guess. Hopefully whatever I'm missing about this one doesn't come back to bite me. Honestly, if you made it through this absolute wall of text, congratulations. I'm excited to play the game! *I am 100% not the person who's thoughts you should be reading.
Here's my analysis:
Superdeath: Classic Combo, skilled player, scary. 0/10 do not want to start near if at all possible. That military means he doesn't need econ stats, because he can just take econ for cheap. GKC: We played our first pitboss (44) together actually. He's pretty good, but I wouldn't call him a vet exactly. Still someone to keep an eye on. As for his civ: India is really strong, all because of fast workers, GKC is pretty darn good at micro. This means he's going to be either insanely good, or flop horribly. Napoleon is a decent choice, but maybe not his original one. Charismatic is underrated I think. Giraflorens: I seriously wouldn't worry too much. Once we get past immortal rush territory he'll be easy pickings if we play our cards right. Wonders aren't super important in MP, and SPI/IND is legit one of the worst combos around. Vanrober: Kublai of Zulu is scary. That's all I'm saying. He's a green, so our best hope of beating him if we're nearby is getting a decent military going. And then sneaking it into his capital. Laztueq: Pericles... Is alright. PHI is alright, CRE is pretty good. Combined with France it sucks. This is a "crush" civ that will probably be taken over barring stellar play. Mjmd: Scary as all get out, must crush ASAP. But everyone knows that. I don't see Lizzie of Korea lasting till endgame without some serious luck and good play. Ramk: "Wild Card" Wang Kon of beautiful Mali... Dangerous, especially given who's playing it. I think we may have to hope someone else crushes them, or else get a serious tech lead fast. El Grillo: The hidden rush combo, with good econ to boot. Seriously dangerous if we aren't careful. I believe Grillo is a vet (I've certainly seen him around). This could be a dicey match-up. Plemo: Ragnar is fantastic, Netherlands is laughable. Econ and combat power, but I would have probably gone for Mongols paired with Ragnar. Dangerous: Superdeath El Grillo Ramk Vanrober Don't let them get to endgame: GKC Mjmd CRUSH!: Giraflorens Laztueq Plemo 
I can't see most of the start, we have wet wheat though, and if we have wet cows than animal husbandry is definitely a go.
EDIT: Looks like the issue was me being on mobile. I think we're definitely going to want pottery after animal husbandry, and BW after that. (April 21st, 2020, 02:48)Amicalola Wrote: Honestly, if you made it through this absolute wall of text, congratulations. I'm excited to play the game! I for one welcome the thoughts, thanks 
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