Seven Samurai Progress

[Zed-F]

I really don't think we need it. We were very close to killing Shiro more than once. It's entirely possible we just need a better build going in. We didn't really plan any of our builds specifically for that mission and I suspect we could do better with some additional forethought and preparation for that specific fight. This may include some more of our PCs picking up copies of Protector's Defense, for instance.

[FoxBat]

As I've repeated often, an assassin can solo this guy in hard mode, and I can build a samurai assassin variant from the same build that could do it. The thing that is making this difficult is we have 7 people at close range to protect, while impossible odds lets him attack all of them at once. There are at least three ways to get around this

- A complete chain of protector's defense plus one extra as backup: so, 4 copies with a high tactics investment (at least 9). Humans need to have a set order for firing off the protector's chain and call on vent when they are about to use it to prevent overlap.

- Get as many samurai on ranged weapons as possible. Paragons and warriors can wield spears, while rangers use a bow. The attribute split is doable with 10 in sword mastery. Two assassins tank shiro with critical defenses and spam wild blow. This is within the rules, the only reason I didn't suggest it earlier is it might feel a little "cheesy".

- Two warriors with stonefists equip a hammer and knocklock shiro. (The two are there as backup for the one that gets banished.) This can be done with "For Great Justice!", Counter Blow, plus whatever else. (Mokole smash, flail, hammer bash, etc.) This is not mutually exclusive with the protector's defense strategy, you might use the two together for a safety net. There is some inconsistency about which skills KD shiro so we'd need some experimentation beforehand, but counter blow is reported to work and that is the strongest choice anyway.

An important advantage of all three approaches is they mean that not everyone needs self-blocking. They can dedicate their builds entirely to damage, including most importantly some increased attack speed stuff. And our damage was lacking compared to a decent all-physical team so we need to re-evaluate there. Generally warriors should have a bar full of adrenaline, For Great Justice to charge it, flail or even frenzy to attack faster, and one energy skill they can reliably spam. Rangers and Assassins should go fill up on as many low-recharging energy skills as they can, including wild blow since they have the least need for adrenaline. Paragons fit somewhere in the middle depending on how many shouts they are using, but either way should certainly use agressive refrian, the armor loss is not relevant compared to the strength of blocking/KD on shiro.

We should eliminate conditions from our builds entirely, because shrio transfers them off too easily when he is close to death, and that is the point when he's most dangerous. This means we should also drop the "they're on fire" setup. The one exception is cripple: this makes it difficult for shiro to switch targets. I noticed the battle got much harder once Mehnlo went down, keeping Shiro crippled will help to prevent that from happening without causing too many problems for ourselves.

I'm not sure on the best approach to the banishings. I'm inclined to think it's better if we can ignore the summonings and focus just on shrio himself. Maybe every character should bring their own run boost so they can get out of that zone and back into battle as soon as possible. One thing that people weren't always following, perhaps because they were tired: when Meditation of the Reaper is up, everyone must attack shiro. You need to deal 500 damage to end the reaper, and the longer his meditation stays up, the more health he steals. Letting him meditate for his full length will result in a party wipe.

So yes, this is quite doable, we just need a strategy as Zed suggested.

[WarBlade]

- A complete chain of protector's defense plus one extra as backup

I tried Protector's Defence on all three of the builds I tried and it wasn't working. The problem is the clause where Protector's Defence ends when you move. It was almost like a trigger. I'd trip Protector's Defence and then watch as Shiro took the hint and ran to a new target, dragging Ragnar and cancelling the skill effect within a second or two. Plus Riposting Shadows was a major contributor to that same problem.

I'm not sure on the best approach to the banishings. I'm inclined to think it's better if we can ignore the summonings and focus just on shrio himself.

If Shiro's health is full, then we might as well make a play for getting our team mate back. Aside from that I'm in agreement that we can probably build for anti-Shiro tactics that keep skills useful for making the run back up the hill.

[FoxBat]

I tried Protector's Defence on all three of the builds I tried and it wasn't working. The problem is the clause where Protector's Defence ends when you move. It was almost like a trigger. I'd trip Protector's Defence and then watch as Shiro took the hint and ran to a new target, dragging Ragnar and cancelling the skill effect within a second or two. Plus Riposting Shadows was a major contributor to that same problem.

He rarely uses riposting shadows when low on health, that's the only time we really need the skill. In fact when we had less than a full chain, I was saving it up just for when impossible odds hit. In that circumstance I usually found that the skill lasted its full duration.

Also he teleports to the person that hit him, which is usually nowhere since that's a melee attack most of the time. And as I recall you break off the auto-attack when he teleports, so you aren't necessarily dragged with him. Only the skill user has to remain still, everyone else can run wherever they want and retain the ability.

Despite all that, yeah it does fail sometimes. That's why I suggest 4 copies, you can push that up to 5 for redundance if you want. Using a hammer instead of or in addition would work better, but this is just the best I could come up with while sticking with swords.

The alternative would be that everyone needs to have a full uptime 75% blocking chain - three tactics stances - which kills our damage, although it would still probably work.

I did just run a test and kill shiro with 3 heroes + 2 warrior henchie, chaining pro's defense as the only defense, and no anti-melee hexes. I had to micro for them a little bit- first time I didn't micro, they let the chain drop and we died horribly; second time I microed and we won.

[Zed-F]

FYI there is Grapple if you want an unlinked knockdown rather than using hammer.

[FoxBat]

Celestials-shimestials

We actually killed Shiro at 3:30 the first time with Zed and Courin disconnected through most of the fight... so we went in again and somehow got a worse time. Mostly it was due to Bozack getting banished that time, the disease and faintheartedness of the bound necro was nasty for us. The second time Shiro died while Zed was dead and Courin banished, so again we won without their help.

Special thanks to Bozack and his mummy-ninja!

[mucco]

Congrats!

[WarBlade]

A shame I missed the finale - Things have gone crazier than usual at work. Ah well. Good job people.