The first turns went quietly. We completed the Oracle as planned, 1-turned a Shrine, then started on National College. Then I got a bunch of notifications on T95
* Maria built a Great Lighthouse
* Morocco and Rome made a DoF
* And most importantly, we kept our promise not to settle near Rome, and are no longer bound by it
Following the last one, I started to think about buying the deer tile near Devotion
I also renewed the 1 horse for 2 gpt deal with Morocco
On T96, Augustus suggested a DoF to us, which I accepted. Moroccan leader said how pleased he was that we became friends with Rome. For me, however, it was a signal to go ahead and buy that deer tile. Sorry if I jumped the gun here, but I feel we needed to get that tile, and this was the best possible moment
T98 - the still unmet civ build the Terracotta Army. We connected our iron, and I sold one to Maria for 2 gpt, and one to Augustus for 45 lump
T99 - Catherine completed The Parthenon
T100 - Apparently Hiawatha has less power than we do. Boy is he in trouble
Portugal founded Catholicism
And that's my turnset. Overview screenshot:
Note that we're running out of happiness. May be worth starting to use avoid growth in some cities. Also note that Faith an Devotion each work one shitty tile at the moment, they were outgrowing the speed with which I could build improvement, but they're running out of tiles as well
Rome has a Ballista in Ravenna, but I would not expect them to do anything hostile at the moment. The only conversation we had after I bought the deer tile was about how glad he was that we were both friends of Monaco
The cities are finishing Temples, we need to decide what to build next. I don't mind building one of Theology wonders outside the capital. Probably not in Devotion though, I think that city has the weakest production. Something worth thinking about
Caesar has cocoa for sale, which will also complete a quest for Singapore (Mercantile). I think we should do that, and maybe at 500g also buy alliance with Singapore. Keep the happiness coming.
We were talking about an exploring work boat, but duh, we have Sailing, we can build Triremes. I say Divinity (our only coastal city) should do two triremes after its temple. There are still a LOT of city-states to find, some probably on islands.
Friends with Rome, sure, take it while we can. Actually Rome may not even be our first target. They still have no pantheon yet, so they're quite likely to share our religion long term. And they're on top of that pointiest-stick chart by far. We might go after Morocco first, especially if we do prophet-smother their religion.
Tech: I guess Civil Service next for food. That goes through HBR which enables a stable in Devotion which should do that and then take all three horse/sheep tiles.
All three Theology wonders want to be on-capital. Great Mosque then Borobudur should be in the same city for synergy, and Hagia Sophia's free temple is wasted if we do it anywhere that already built one. I could see aborting the sunk cost in Piety and doing Hagia there. (Devotion will do a stable next and Divinity does triremes. Best move would have to build triremes in Divinity earlier, skipping its temple, then Hagia there, but we didn't think of that.)
Hiawatha is going down quick, two of his cities are already near half health. If anyone asks us to dogpile, I'd say do it for the diplo brownie points.
Um, first, are we allowed to build Triremes? If the team says we can build 1-2 normally for exploration I'm ok with it, but given the back and forth over scouting thought worth at least mentioning.
Re: Hagia: I forgot about the free temple effect. But there's other things too, we really don't want it until we spawn the natural 300 faith prophet right? That will be in ~15-20 turns. (our faith generation will go to +12 shortly with the temples finishing, but will lose the forest bonus at Piety soon, and there is a bit of random turn delay once you get to 300)....Agree with Thawk's plan, pause Temple at Piety and swap it to Hagia. (Not sure what to dump 1 turn of production into). We shouldn't have to slow down the build for the wonder but will have to remember to watch it.
Re:happy - we do have the last truffles coming online in 2 turns which will resolve the immediate crunch. And the non-wonder cities could build colosseums after temples if not much else looks good. So not sure Singapore is needed.
I do like the twofer of the cocoa quest, although we don't have the gold for alliance now. We can sell a horse to Morocco for 45 gold now, and maybe do a loan from Caesar (gpt from us for his bulk gold along with the cocoa) to get close to 500. Guess I'm worried if we do the cocoa now, some of the influence fades while we wait for 500g and we get a shorter alliance; if we wait to do it all together Caesar might sell the cocoa to someone else. Not sure I have a recommendation. I wonder if our gold is better used for buying forest/hill tiles for more production - we are hitting limits on that and the culture picker rarely goes for those tiles - although the current prices have gotten pretty high.
Agree on civil service as next tech.
I don't like the Stables plan at all. Capital is already hurting for enough tiles to work (its on the 2F fish now, but there really is little better without robbing another city) and is slated for all those critical wonders (remember that Grand Temple has to go there, and while we want it last since no race for it it's still +8 faith), so I don't get having Devotion take some tiles away from it.
Also it might be time for the capital to take more of the best tiles, like the deer and wheat at Divinity. Right now growth at the capital is more expensive than the size 6 + 7 cities, (EDIT: food cost is 101 vs 66 and 77, but capital has landed elite so it's that compresses the difference some) but citizens at the capital are worth more because
1. Monarchy
2. National College just about done
3. All those wonders we want there, coupled with not much priority builds in other cities besides Hagia in Piety.
Question/note about religion: our founder belief is based on foreign spread, so that's going to be the target with prophets and the Borobudur missionaries. Note that our own cities will be without religion for a very long time if we don't use missionaries on them. I think that's ok - our beliefs do nothing for us until we actually want to start buying units, and we can just buy in the capital anyways right? I'm not missing anything there?
Any other comments on writers guild? Doesn't sound like I convinced anyone. What are the social policy plans after Org Religion? I think we finish Piety but not sure order.
Mandate of Heaven (-20% faith buy cost) is obviously the most useful once we get to the actual unit buying phase.
Reformation (for the buy-industrial and later units faith) may be crucial for longterm success but does nothing for us for a long time (and have to go through Religious Tolerance, which seems really lackluster). Note that the three other religion founders are all in Piety social policies, but haven't Reformed yet. (With any luck Hiawatha will die before he can Reformate).
Question 1: If a heathen civ takes the Iroquois holy city, do they then act like the founder of Protestantism?
Question 2: if someone else grabs the Industrial+ units Reformation belief, can we just use it by conquering them before the Industrial era and keeping their religion in some cities?
Right, variant rule on Triremes, duh. Might actually want to do a work boat for exploring, then.
I'm suggesting the stables for maximum overall tile productivity. Devotion can take over more wonder building long term after the capital-locked Theology ones. I could go along with other plans, though. But ultimately all cities run out of good tiles and need specialist slots. Agreed that capital may need more of the best tiles during this critical wonder phase.
I think Writer's Guild should be built somewhere. The Artist GPs don't share the same GP point pool from the others, so we don't lose much. And generating some boost in culture always help.
I've read strategy guides that saving GArtists to be used after the World Fair thing is better, because you generate more culture at that time. But I'm not sure those guides aren't valueing the straight up culture value more than it should be, compared to the snowball effect of earlier SPs (that you get from using artists earlier).
So, I think we should build it, but not in the Capital, and not sure if we need it right now. I'd say Devotion is probably the best city to build it, considering it's running out of things to build.
I'm not sure if GWriters increase the points required to produce other great people, such as GScientists. If we intend to make GScientists at all of course. Don't mind building it in any city which has spare hammers and spare food to actually work Writer specialists
(June 21st, 2015, 15:34)yuris125 Wrote: I'm not sure if GWriters increase the points required to produce other great people, such as GScientists. If we intend to make GScientists at all of course. Don't mind building it in any city which has spare hammers and spare food to actually work Writer specialists
So, Great Writers, Great Artists, and Great Musicians all have a separate cost counter from each other and the 'normal' great person (where great scientists, engineers, merchants share one). So making a great writer or two doesn't make any other great person more expensive. That said, I'm not sure what we need great artists for? golden ages got majorly nerfed by taking the gold yields off of river and water tiles, and don't seem too important.
Also roster update:
My apartment building is getting fumigated for termites this week, so I'm going to be without a civ-capable computer from Tuesday - Friday. Will need a delay on my turnset after Ichabod, so Thawk can go in front of me.
I'll just stay out of it, and hope no one decides to take offence about us not taking part
