(June 24th, 2015, 11:36)T-hawk Wrote: Is Hanging Gardens worthwhile? Usually it is, but it actually seems rather meh here. We don't have any city that will get a major boost from the food, already being short on tiles to work. I guess it could support specialists later (in conjunction with the free Garden for GPP), but do we have any city suited for doing that?
I remember seeing that glitch on a trade route ending in Beyond Earth, so yeah of course it's present here too. Noted. I routinely reload and replay to work around game bugs such as that, no problem there.
I don't think there's anything more efficient to do on Monaco's road, there's only one tile left to do and already got a worker there.
Yes, Organized Religion. Still going to be a while before getting up to Reformation. Maybe we do need to start getting artist specialists going somewhere?
(June 24th, 2015, 10:31)Ichabod Wrote: *T-Hawk will have to micro everything after CS is researched at eot. Good luck!
Nope - gotta micro before eot. Cities are processed in order. If Faith has enough beakers to reach CS, it will do so and then the food kicks in starting with the next city (Devotion) right on the same turn. If it's Devotion's beakers that reach it, the food starts with Divinity, and so on. I'll handle it -- although we are pretty much maxed on working all improved tiles anyway.
Tech, Education is one option, or towards Metal Casting for workshops? I think we do want to start flipping our trade routes to production rather than food.
(June 24th, 2015, 10:31)Ichabod Wrote: Land revealed with the scout. Notice the CS's borders; we couldn't meet it by land.
I believe we can, if the scout stays on that hill at the end of a turn. We can't see a city tile or unit of theirs to make contact -- but their sea tile should be able to see us on the CS's turn. I'll try assuming it looks feasible among the barbs.
I still can get my ahead around how Civ 5 process production at EOT... Thinking about it, perhaps the TR bug occurs because the city that started the TR comes first in the order (in this case it was Faith -> Piety), compared to the receiving city (hence, it's processed first and the bonus from the TR is already over by the time it processes the receiving city). Worth a test to see if sending a food TR from our 4th city to our 3rd results in the same bug. Since it doesn't matter where internal TRs start (well, you have to have the needed building, but the yield of the TR doesn't change), this can end up saving some food in some cases.
MC is a good idea for tech too. Both enable specialists, which we are going to need, as noted. I'm okay with both. Ah, I think 2 CSs want a GSci (I'm sure about one, the other I may be mistaking with another game), so perhaps that gives a slight edge to Education and the scientist specialists.
HG would also get the +2 faith, if we go with that Belief. It really isn't that big of a deal, but considering we are running out of things to build and that Faith gets +30% when building Wonders, it may be worth it.
(June 24th, 2015, 11:48)Wyatan Wrote: Also new in BNW, trade caravans exert religious pressure (which is why Itinerant Preachers tends to be considered obsolete in BNW, although I wouldn't necessarily agree: those caravans might be better employed elsewhere).
What you might want to research is whether those effects can stack (iirc, the answer is no, but I wouldn't bet the farm on my vague recollections ).
Caravans do exert pressure, but you need combustion tech or a caravansary (a mostly useless building) to increase Caravan range to more than 10 tiles (which is the default religious pressure range). The bonus don't stack, I've checked. Considering all this, I also disagree that Itinerant Preachers is obsolete now, getting more religious pressure range for free early is different than investing hammers in a building, in an unit and losing TR slots to achieve the same effect (in some cities, not all).
How about going for the Writer's Guild in Devotion? That's the city with the most problems to find tiles to work, so opening two specialists slots is nice. The +6 culture per turn is also decent, to speed up acquisition of tiles and to speed up the Piety SPs. It's better than working a 2/1 non-irrigated plains farm, anyway.
Playing now. I know timmy and yuris haven't rung in since Ichabod's report, but we're not at any major decision points, just minor building tweaks.
I've decided on this plan: Hanging Gardens then Writer's Guild in Devotion, and make that city the specialist focus, it definitely has the most food long term.
Will do Education next. Universities and workshops are about equally attractive, but this also opens up Research Agreements.
Inherited turn: It will indeed take all four cities' beakers to get Civil Service, so no need to micromanage for food this turn.
Between turns, Morocco completes Colossus. We renew a 2gpt horse sale to Cathy. A Silver deal from Hiawatha expired, and ugh, that drove Devotion into unhappiness this turn so it lost out on food before finishing its colosseum to bring happiness back to 0.
Turn 111: A barb spawned at Monaco's camp. I hesitated a bit - we should survive one counterattack but possibly not two - but then attacked because we need the alliance and happiness right now.
Catherine completes Machu Picchu.
T112: Organized Religion adopted, increasing faith production from 10 to 16. Divinity finishes its colosseum, I start a work boat to improve its fish. Low payback but there isn't much else to do here.
Sitting the scout on the hill by the unknown city-state didn't make contact.
We renew salt for truffles with Sweden.
Portugal both reforms and enhances their religion (took me a while to realize what had happened). They took Jesuit Education (buy universities/etc with faith), Holy Order (missionary discount), and Religious Center (+2 happy from temples) as the second follower belief.
Friendship with Morocco expired. We renew it.
T113: Great Mosque completed, up to 22 faith production including the free mosque. Borobudur started.
Hiawatha makes peace with both Sweden and Morocco.
We lose our warrior. He survived two counterattacks from that barb warrior, but not a third. My fault, shouldn't have been greedy on the camp. I guess we can get by without him though.
Iroquois enhance with Missionary Zeal (+25% missionary strength) and Guruship (+2 prod with a specialist).
T115: Our scout discovers Mt Kilimanjaro and receives the Altitude Training promotion. Very neat, as it stacks with ignoring terrain costs, meaning he can move an extra square through hills.
T116: We get our Great Prophet. He starts heading towards Morocco although will take a while to get there.
Ragusa wants Chichen Itza. I set Divinity on it. This could be vetoed but the city really doesn't have anything else it needs to build.
T117: Road to Monaco completed, and of course we immediately start dismantling it to save the costs. Make sure we remove the road on Piety's truffles, a worker just moved there on my last turn.
T119: Hagia Sophia completed. The prophet has to move to Faith before he can enhance the religion, though.
Scout met three city-states: Vilnius (Mercantile), Valletta (Militaristic), Antwerp (Mercantile). He also finally met the last missing civ: Pedro II of Brazil. I swap embassies just to find out where he is, which is just south of Portugal. I also swap our only Ivory for his surplus Sugar, no net profit, but it's possible Rome could come up with more ivory to trade to us.
T120: Education in. Research Agreements are up to the next leader but I think we should do them. Rome has enough money. Morocco will if we give them a lump sum for some gpt. We're not attacking either within 30 turns. Nobody else will be interested in friendship (they won't sign DoF if Neutral.)
I set research to Engineering on the way to Metal Casting, but we could change our minds. We'll want Optics sometime for a lighthouse at Divinity, could do this either before or after Chichen Itza, or veto Chichen in favor of the university or the next caravan with the Engineering trade route.
I left the Prophet unused at Faith so we can make sure we're all agreed on it. I think we're agreed on Divine Inspiration for follower. Enhancer could still be either Itinerant Preachers (pressure range) or Religious Texts (pressure strength). I usually lean towards Texts because it works and snowballs faster, but this map actually has quite a few city distances in the 11-13 tile range for Preachers, very notably Faith to both of Morocco's cities, and Rome city to all of Russia.
Hanging Gardens due in 5 turns in Devotion. Not sure on university or writer's guild next, up to the next leader.
Borobudur due in 2 turns, which means we get 9 cities to spread religion to. The Prophet will take care of Morocco and Iroquois. The top missionary targets are Devotion, Rome, Antium, then into Russia and Sweden. Let the smaller Roman cities and our southern area convert on their own from pressure. Moscow is likely to require two spreads (size 11 and has one follower of the Iroquois religion) but I think that's worthwhile.
So I should be back home tomorrow, but plans Th and Fri nights, so would likely play daytime Saturday. If that's too long next player can go (yuris right?)
BNW Research Agreements
They got weaker (assuming we are going to outtech the AIs now with NC and early education)
And don't see us taking Rationalism soon so doubt we get either Porcelain Tower or the policy in the next 30 turns.
So I'm hesitant on whether they are worth it, but without being able to open the save tonight I can't really evaluate other uses of the gold (buy universities, city states, etc).
What do you guys think about expanding some more? Most of the faith bonuses are per city and I don't think we'll expand through conquest anytime soon. Looking at the map, I tried to figure out some spots we could go for (I had enhanced our religion in these screenshots, to see what happens; disregard that, please ).
Tropical island. Good food for growth, a luxury we don't have and +12 gpt. Oh, I mean, 6 iron. Bonus: a ruin to pop out a medieval tech.
Decent land. Not sure where to settle, but we could manage a city with 2 luxuries we don't have, copper and sugar.
Another source of ivory, perhaps even Citrus. Could help spreading our religion to this city states clump, if we manage to spread Druidism here somehow.
We want COCOA!!!
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Bonus picture for the lurkers, Brazil and the lands discovered by our scout.
Don't go settling distant lands. We are indeed going to start conquering in the not-too-distant future. We're done spending faith on other things and now it can all go into units. We have our sources ramped up nicely now, and will add another 30/turn from Pilgrimage within the next 20 turns. We'll be buying a unit every few turns, once we find some technology to make some decent ones (trebuchets?)
Research agreements - thanks Timmy, didn't know they were nerfed. Might still be worthwhile with Rome who is decently big and likely to stay friendly. Probably not with Morocco.
I'm fine with waiting till Saturday for Timmy to play.
I think we should attack the Iroquois first. They are heatens, they are hated by everyone and they have some luxuries we don't. A nice package. We may even convince some AIs to join on the fun. From there, we can attack Sweden too.
And what's the planned units for the attack? Knights and crossbows sound nice. We could start heading there with our research.
By the way, shouldn't we get OB with Morocco, Russia and Rome, so that our missionaries don't lose power while crossing their lands? GPros don't lose strenght from walking on foreign land, I guess, but missionaries do, is that right?
I'm okay about waiting for Timmy, but if Yuris prefers to play today or tomorrow, I have no problem with it either.
I really know very little about civ5 warfare, not sure what our goal units should be.
Do think Trebuchets are a decent choice (we need some kind of siege to attack cities right?). They are paired with Notre Dame which could be useful for us right?
Yes, will have to buy OB for missionaries to work.
Faith bought units get full XP right? So we probably want a barracks in one buying city? If we think Rome isn't the target maybe the capital makes sense for that.
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![[Image: camp.jpg]](https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/19112178/camp.jpg)
Very neat, as it stacks with ignoring terrain costs, meaning he can move an extra square through hills.![[Image: 125ad.jpg]](https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/19112178/125ad.jpg)
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Bonus: a ruin to pop out a medieval tech.
