Turn 97 Part 2
OK, now it gets a bit more difficult.
I'm going to make a play for MoM, in Kalamazoo. No doubler, I'm possibly going to be the first to Calendar, this position needs commerce for tech and I'm considering using Serfdom for the period between golden ages rather than Caste because we will have more watermills and windmills than workshops. We have no need to pop out two GS for an Astro bulb, and we have no religion at present, nor likely anyway to spread it for Pacifism. The extra turns in a GA to pump out some more points become increasingly valuable (and it will be trivial to use Caste in the first golden age to get out the 300 and 400 point GP for the second golden age and hold onto them).
With that in mind, I want Kalamazoo as large as possible before Calendar, but that is only size 6. It only needs size 8, to work both pig and deer and reach 25hpt though. Realistically, that means size 6 with food box full to only need to generate the minimum amount of food needed to reach size 8. No more whips. It will get there just by using the pigs when ITM can't use them. There are also the two mines that need finishing, but again, they can wait.
This worker in the queue will need to be finished to help hook the incense and road to City G location. After IW is completed, finish the worker eot101, then take the deer and drop the hills; it can grow eot102 as the whip unhappy wears off. Ideally it will use the farm one turn whilst building wealth, on T99, which would mean growth@5 eot102 and growth@6 eot103. I'm currently guestimating Calendar to be around T108 but that is not based in any evidence, just gut feeling, and still need to hook resources to be able to grow.
This settler will settle City R site. You can see the road heading off towards that location. BCR does not need the deer for the settler, but JJ can't use the corn and Kalamazoo can't use the deer if it is using the pig, and ITM can't use the pig. After the settler eot102, growth into the gems happy on the sheep and corn, a market, and some military. Axes, for the Rome border. BCR is just using whatever tiles are left over at the moment.
Workboat for WB. Micro doesn't need posting, swapping between sheep and plains hill, corn and grass farm as needed. Expensive city to grow and no real need to do so. Probably whip a settler here, but need workboat eot108 for the island city fish. Given that this workboat completes eot99, I can't get the settler out before I need the next workboat. I could fit in a worker double whip and overflow, but meh. More likely to just get the workboat close to completion then go for the settler, and finish the workboat eot108 to save on unit costs. No need to try anything flashy.
If this city builds the settler for City G, then it will likely stay on Wealth until T99, then on T100 dump the overflow, whip settler T104, which means I need the road over the incense completed on T106. I can't get it completed before T107, and given there is absolutely no work done on a road to the front city location, this is looking more and more like a bad idea.
Given that City R is settled T104 and the workers are finished T109 (and available to mine the two remaining hills here, I could double whip a worker if I dumped the hammers into a worker "inefficiently", and then just complete the settler later. More likely I just send the settler the long way around: City G could be settled T110 with road in place to the front city going around the peak so OH can't see it until the settler is already on the tile, and I can even get the incense road down whilst doing this.
So keep with the plan: settler eot104, regrow to size 5, work the hills, build wealth or units. Need a farm, this place grows slowly: workers from City R can do that on the way back.
Sorry for the micro, but...Worker whipped T98, workboat T99 12/30, growth@3 eot100 workboat 13/30, mine completed and worked T101 for 6 base hpt which leaves the work boat one hammer short of completion eot102, one hammer short leading to one turn not working the improved fish. I can't see a way around that issue that doesn't involve the whip, and whipping it again after this worker is...awkward. I could do it, and I think it will still be able to reach size 4 and work the mines after borders pop. After the workboat I need an archer for the Sugar city, I need a spear for this city, and I'll probably need more workers.
You can see that OH has a chariot here. I'm slightly paranoid that now he has signed peace with DZ he is considering an attack, but I have greater power, he has a tech whole, and he needs to climb out of it. But he also needs land, and I'm not sure if he views that as the greater concern. So after this worker/work boat combo, I'm much more interested in beefing up this cities defences. Of course, OH could also be concerned that my power has climbed, and his has dropped, and that I might be ruthless enough to invade for some marginal cities.
Fact is, I'd rather he get Calendar and trade me some dyes.
With gems hooked T103, and thinking Calendar will fall T108-ish, I will only 1 worker to chop the sugar dye. Given that 3S will not pop borders until eot106, I will let the mining worker get the chop in, so the two workers at ST can farm the wheat T106...or chop a granary.
Now here is something I've not seen discussed before: We all know and accept that granaries boost food, but is growing always the right choice? ST is 13 tiles from the capital, and JJ is only 9 for comparison. I expect costs to be roughly 50% greater per pop point, so obviously the gems are worth working, but beyond that...? Given I am planning on building wealth, is there a point where the costs of the pop point in per turn commerce are greater than the value of the improved tile it works. Does it not make more sense to build/chop a barracks to pop borders to work the second gems and slow build a granary, rather than chop the granary, and grow and have to put a medium production city like AM onto wealth to pay for the extra 2-3 pop points that are working a dry wheat and, at best, a farmed river plains.
I'm guessing that culture is the right play here, not the granary, especially as it will grow eot109, and I can only chop a granary T107 saving 4 food on growth to size 2. Better to double chop a library T107 and the one pop whip it on T110, borders pop eot115. Farm is finished T110, second gems is roaded T113, and chopped by both workers T115 (gets the worker back on the road network) and can be mined by a one worker T119. ST would regrow@2 eot115 (gems T110, wheat until growth). I'm pretty sure this is the quicker way to getting both gems and the wheat worked, rather than the granary first: the granary could be completed eot113 via the third chop, with 14 food in the box, avoid growth T115, grow eot116 saving 11 food and overflowing 4, and growth@3 eot119, so T120, granary and library in place, both gems hooked and worked.
Granary first would be chopped T107 as stated, but then the library couldn't be whip until size 4, and the third tile available is only 1 food. I'm just going to take this as read that Library first is actually the right choice, not granary.
The downside to all this? 3S will have absolutely no worker support. I need to bring them down from the north.
Oh lord above, this city is fucked.
This city needs machinery, every tile is watermilled or windmilled with about 2 farms. So unless I waste turns improved tiles I'm about to then bulldoze, it is only of value to me as a whip city. More likely, it needs to whip a lighthouse. Granary is chopped T102 though (the signs state when I need to move workers to those forest due to the failed Mids chops). Corn farmed T104 because the chops take precedence. Avoid growth T104, growth@2 eot105, growth@3 eot106, growth@4 eot108 and lighthouse whip T109? Seems legit, it can pick up the plains hill to give some hammers if needed, otherwise, I just want to get the workers somewhere useful. Likely galley whips from here if we start settling west.
No change:
No screenshots, but I believe I had 8 trade routes yielding 1 commerce per turn before settling, so afterwards, I had 10 trade routes yielding 2 commerce.
Question to lurkers: can you workshop tundra tiles that are not freshwater? I don't think so, but just want to make sure.
OK, now it gets a bit more difficult.
I'm going to make a play for MoM, in Kalamazoo. No doubler, I'm possibly going to be the first to Calendar, this position needs commerce for tech and I'm considering using Serfdom for the period between golden ages rather than Caste because we will have more watermills and windmills than workshops. We have no need to pop out two GS for an Astro bulb, and we have no religion at present, nor likely anyway to spread it for Pacifism. The extra turns in a GA to pump out some more points become increasingly valuable (and it will be trivial to use Caste in the first golden age to get out the 300 and 400 point GP for the second golden age and hold onto them).
With that in mind, I want Kalamazoo as large as possible before Calendar, but that is only size 6. It only needs size 8, to work both pig and deer and reach 25hpt though. Realistically, that means size 6 with food box full to only need to generate the minimum amount of food needed to reach size 8. No more whips. It will get there just by using the pigs when ITM can't use them. There are also the two mines that need finishing, but again, they can wait.
This worker in the queue will need to be finished to help hook the incense and road to City G location. After IW is completed, finish the worker eot101, then take the deer and drop the hills; it can grow eot102 as the whip unhappy wears off. Ideally it will use the farm one turn whilst building wealth, on T99, which would mean growth@5 eot102 and growth@6 eot103. I'm currently guestimating Calendar to be around T108 but that is not based in any evidence, just gut feeling, and still need to hook resources to be able to grow.
This settler will settle City R site. You can see the road heading off towards that location. BCR does not need the deer for the settler, but JJ can't use the corn and Kalamazoo can't use the deer if it is using the pig, and ITM can't use the pig. After the settler eot102, growth into the gems happy on the sheep and corn, a market, and some military. Axes, for the Rome border. BCR is just using whatever tiles are left over at the moment.
Workboat for WB. Micro doesn't need posting, swapping between sheep and plains hill, corn and grass farm as needed. Expensive city to grow and no real need to do so. Probably whip a settler here, but need workboat eot108 for the island city fish. Given that this workboat completes eot99, I can't get the settler out before I need the next workboat. I could fit in a worker double whip and overflow, but meh. More likely to just get the workboat close to completion then go for the settler, and finish the workboat eot108 to save on unit costs. No need to try anything flashy.
If this city builds the settler for City G, then it will likely stay on Wealth until T99, then on T100 dump the overflow, whip settler T104, which means I need the road over the incense completed on T106. I can't get it completed before T107, and given there is absolutely no work done on a road to the front city location, this is looking more and more like a bad idea.
Given that City R is settled T104 and the workers are finished T109 (and available to mine the two remaining hills here, I could double whip a worker if I dumped the hammers into a worker "inefficiently", and then just complete the settler later. More likely I just send the settler the long way around: City G could be settled T110 with road in place to the front city going around the peak so OH can't see it until the settler is already on the tile, and I can even get the incense road down whilst doing this.
So keep with the plan: settler eot104, regrow to size 5, work the hills, build wealth or units. Need a farm, this place grows slowly: workers from City R can do that on the way back.
Sorry for the micro, but...Worker whipped T98, workboat T99 12/30, growth@3 eot100 workboat 13/30, mine completed and worked T101 for 6 base hpt which leaves the work boat one hammer short of completion eot102, one hammer short leading to one turn not working the improved fish. I can't see a way around that issue that doesn't involve the whip, and whipping it again after this worker is...awkward. I could do it, and I think it will still be able to reach size 4 and work the mines after borders pop. After the workboat I need an archer for the Sugar city, I need a spear for this city, and I'll probably need more workers.
You can see that OH has a chariot here. I'm slightly paranoid that now he has signed peace with DZ he is considering an attack, but I have greater power, he has a tech whole, and he needs to climb out of it. But he also needs land, and I'm not sure if he views that as the greater concern. So after this worker/work boat combo, I'm much more interested in beefing up this cities defences. Of course, OH could also be concerned that my power has climbed, and his has dropped, and that I might be ruthless enough to invade for some marginal cities.
Fact is, I'd rather he get Calendar and trade me some dyes.
With gems hooked T103, and thinking Calendar will fall T108-ish, I will only 1 worker to chop the sugar dye. Given that 3S will not pop borders until eot106, I will let the mining worker get the chop in, so the two workers at ST can farm the wheat T106...or chop a granary.
Now here is something I've not seen discussed before: We all know and accept that granaries boost food, but is growing always the right choice? ST is 13 tiles from the capital, and JJ is only 9 for comparison. I expect costs to be roughly 50% greater per pop point, so obviously the gems are worth working, but beyond that...? Given I am planning on building wealth, is there a point where the costs of the pop point in per turn commerce are greater than the value of the improved tile it works. Does it not make more sense to build/chop a barracks to pop borders to work the second gems and slow build a granary, rather than chop the granary, and grow and have to put a medium production city like AM onto wealth to pay for the extra 2-3 pop points that are working a dry wheat and, at best, a farmed river plains.
I'm guessing that culture is the right play here, not the granary, especially as it will grow eot109, and I can only chop a granary T107 saving 4 food on growth to size 2. Better to double chop a library T107 and the one pop whip it on T110, borders pop eot115. Farm is finished T110, second gems is roaded T113, and chopped by both workers T115 (gets the worker back on the road network) and can be mined by a one worker T119. ST would regrow@2 eot115 (gems T110, wheat until growth). I'm pretty sure this is the quicker way to getting both gems and the wheat worked, rather than the granary first: the granary could be completed eot113 via the third chop, with 14 food in the box, avoid growth T115, grow eot116 saving 11 food and overflowing 4, and growth@3 eot119, so T120, granary and library in place, both gems hooked and worked.
Granary first would be chopped T107 as stated, but then the library couldn't be whip until size 4, and the third tile available is only 1 food. I'm just going to take this as read that Library first is actually the right choice, not granary.
The downside to all this? 3S will have absolutely no worker support. I need to bring them down from the north.
Oh lord above, this city is fucked.
This city needs machinery, every tile is watermilled or windmilled with about 2 farms. So unless I waste turns improved tiles I'm about to then bulldoze, it is only of value to me as a whip city. More likely, it needs to whip a lighthouse. Granary is chopped T102 though (the signs state when I need to move workers to those forest due to the failed Mids chops). Corn farmed T104 because the chops take precedence. Avoid growth T104, growth@2 eot105, growth@3 eot106, growth@4 eot108 and lighthouse whip T109? Seems legit, it can pick up the plains hill to give some hammers if needed, otherwise, I just want to get the workers somewhere useful. Likely galley whips from here if we start settling west.
No change:
Quote:The island city is settled next turn. Corn hooked T99, two forests chopped T103 and T104, library whipped T105, borders pop eot110 and should aim to have fish hooked T111 and the third forest chopped for the granary T111 as well. I'm reconsidering keeping two workers here, because another option is to grow and whip a settler here for the other island city: this would hook the sheep T114 as opposed to T117, and more importantly, it means I can send the galley south, pick up 2 chariots and go exploring. If I intend to bring a worker back, that would mean the galley has to wait until T104 to get the worker back, that is 11 tiles of exploration the galley is delayed by.
No screenshots, but I believe I had 8 trade routes yielding 1 commerce per turn before settling, so afterwards, I had 10 trade routes yielding 2 commerce.
Question to lurkers: can you workshop tundra tiles that are not freshwater? I don't think so, but just want to make sure.