Turn 138, GA T3
So we got graphs on superjm this turn. I have not seen them since T120, so even though we lost them around T128 we had no screenshots to compare them to.
I am not concerned by OH's power because I can see everything be sent to his south western area, to invade DZ or superdeath (superdeath has to be to the south or south west of DZ, only unexplored area of the map), and DZ will be finished off by Lewwyn soon, so OH is going to force his share of the spoils. OTOH,superjm has to be worried about OT4E because OT4E is only balanced out in power by Gav: the moment Gav declares war on someone, or makes a move, OT4E can just rush north and start taking everything.
OT4E has MoM, and must be preparing to rush to knights with his first GA. I don't know if he is already getting there, but I have one warrior in his front city already, once scout probing around, and I am running a further scout down to get better coverage (and to hedge I am setting a sentry network up on the islands in the ring of fire in case anyone tries anything funny on my southern seaboard). The clock is ticking on superjm getting crushed from the south, and I need to make the decision to either join in, or to support him. At the same time, I may have an opportunity to join in on a war against Lewwyn by OH (but that is really risky, because it has the opportunity for OH to then swap sides in a 2V1, so I really don't want that in the near future, and the pay off is likely islands only).
What this means is after courthouses, straight military. Construction to Engineering, Feudalism to Guilds, Optics through to Paper (and Privateers), Construction are the core aims in some order, backed up with a Theocracy push and this will have to marry up to the great people plan: The second GA is going to be based around building up the army and revolting into Merc (and likely either Printing Press, Gunpowder or Nationalism, as Education for Universities and double OU doesn't fit this empire or available construction, I would need to use the GA itself to build the universities). The reality is that the second GA could come before I finished up on the Medieval era techs. And I need a navy, Portugal's time to shine.
I've gone and worked out the tile improvements for WB, BCR and by elimination, Kalamazoo. I'd appreciate it if someone would double check this, but it is not essential (I know that the eastern farm and eastern plains workshop need to be swapped).
Assuming Caste, Guilds and that once into Merc we run engineers in all cities, I think WB gets to 34 with caste, 38 with caste and Guilds, and then 40 base hpt at size 15, so it's basically churning out one turn knights.
Because it needs to grow, I'm focusing on getting it as large as possible prior to Optics because it needs to hit 27 base hpt to one turn Carracks, which is size 13 at 3fpt ie continued growth. I focused on one turning Carracks here because I the only other port city that has any production is Sing Sing Sing: every other city sucks, so I believe WB will be on Carracks for a good 30 turns, just churning them out. It'll need a market next, and it finishes the HE next turn as well as grows to size 9. At that point it will require 86 food to reach size 13, and then a further 49 food to reach size 15. At some point I need to get another source of happiness for size 15 (and then more for redundancy). Looking at size 13 by around T153? There are 4 workers around here already, should be enough to get WB tooled up in time.
Ultimately, BCR can grow to something like size 18, but it only needs size 14 to one turn knights. I know one of the none riverside workshops can be riverside, and BCR will use all of the sheep, corn and deer to feed the unit factory.
Again, Caste/Guilds/Merc hammer output is 36/40/42, which means that after Caste can change some tiles and start to grow it slowly up to the later game sizes needed for Rifles and Cuirs. Need a market for further happy as stated 2 turns ago, but here I think we have to farm some of the flatland tiles to reach size 14 and then swap everything over to workshops. I'm torn between just forcing units out of here straight away and growing it, but because we still need to get Machinery, Construction etc, this is the best time to grow. After HE is finished (pushed because I wasn't sure if superjm was going to invade, otherwise I would have built it slower) I think it takes around 100 food to reach size 14. Given the amount of tile improvements needed, including the farm>workshops clocking in at around 80 total worker turns, I need to bring another 4 up to support the single worker already here.
I was thinking I needed military out ASAP even for defensive units, but I reckon that need has never really existed except in my paranoia. And given I need Carracks to be able to do anything over in superjms land in response to OT4E, there is a window where building units just increases costs and stockpiles them for later waves: so long as BCR is building a unit per turn shortly before WB is churning out one turn Carracks, other cities will fill up the spare transport capacity and there is minimal need for stockpiling the rather naff units I can build now or in the next 5 turns.
Kalamazoo just takes whatever is left. Both cottages are given over to LBJ and ITM, which leaves 4 plains windmills, one grass windmill, copper mine and two grass workshops.
Caste/Guilds/Merc gives 25/27/29 base hpt at size 11, which needs 58 food for 2 pop growths. Just farming the spare grassland tile and windmilling the hills means growth will be good enough IMO. 2 cats/HA/LB every 3 turns is sound, and more than I expected TBH. The rounding isn't ideal but then it's not solveable until BCR gets to a much large size or Biology.
Overview of the northern industrial area.
Industrious started to turn on once we got forges down: In two turns it will have two copies of a single National Wonder down, but we will not be using it for a few turns. So by the end of the GA I would say it is fair to describe IND as providing a new advantage, and time to see if it is broken. Given the pain I've had from playing with a single trait and a baseline civ so far, I'm not seeing where I can get a payoff that is at the ZOMFG broken level.
What turn did Elkad die? T77-ish. So it's taken 61 turns to go from down a civ conquest, 84 v 69 food to up 337 v 320 and higher in population and land area. Whilst also hitting the boundaries of both horizontal and vertical growth in that time. I wasn't sure we'd reach this point and still have a decent tech position.
Top GNP is OH, but as he just finished a courthouse, I am now 1EP below the level of tech visibility, so I've gone and adjusted Ep spending again.
So we got graphs on superjm this turn. I have not seen them since T120, so even though we lost them around T128 we had no screenshots to compare them to.
I am not concerned by OH's power because I can see everything be sent to his south western area, to invade DZ or superdeath (superdeath has to be to the south or south west of DZ, only unexplored area of the map), and DZ will be finished off by Lewwyn soon, so OH is going to force his share of the spoils. OTOH,superjm has to be worried about OT4E because OT4E is only balanced out in power by Gav: the moment Gav declares war on someone, or makes a move, OT4E can just rush north and start taking everything.
OT4E has MoM, and must be preparing to rush to knights with his first GA. I don't know if he is already getting there, but I have one warrior in his front city already, once scout probing around, and I am running a further scout down to get better coverage (and to hedge I am setting a sentry network up on the islands in the ring of fire in case anyone tries anything funny on my southern seaboard). The clock is ticking on superjm getting crushed from the south, and I need to make the decision to either join in, or to support him. At the same time, I may have an opportunity to join in on a war against Lewwyn by OH (but that is really risky, because it has the opportunity for OH to then swap sides in a 2V1, so I really don't want that in the near future, and the pay off is likely islands only).
What this means is after courthouses, straight military. Construction to Engineering, Feudalism to Guilds, Optics through to Paper (and Privateers), Construction are the core aims in some order, backed up with a Theocracy push and this will have to marry up to the great people plan: The second GA is going to be based around building up the army and revolting into Merc (and likely either Printing Press, Gunpowder or Nationalism, as Education for Universities and double OU doesn't fit this empire or available construction, I would need to use the GA itself to build the universities). The reality is that the second GA could come before I finished up on the Medieval era techs. And I need a navy, Portugal's time to shine.
I've gone and worked out the tile improvements for WB, BCR and by elimination, Kalamazoo. I'd appreciate it if someone would double check this, but it is not essential (I know that the eastern farm and eastern plains workshop need to be swapped).
Assuming Caste, Guilds and that once into Merc we run engineers in all cities, I think WB gets to 34 with caste, 38 with caste and Guilds, and then 40 base hpt at size 15, so it's basically churning out one turn knights.
Because it needs to grow, I'm focusing on getting it as large as possible prior to Optics because it needs to hit 27 base hpt to one turn Carracks, which is size 13 at 3fpt ie continued growth. I focused on one turning Carracks here because I the only other port city that has any production is Sing Sing Sing: every other city sucks, so I believe WB will be on Carracks for a good 30 turns, just churning them out. It'll need a market next, and it finishes the HE next turn as well as grows to size 9. At that point it will require 86 food to reach size 13, and then a further 49 food to reach size 15. At some point I need to get another source of happiness for size 15 (and then more for redundancy). Looking at size 13 by around T153? There are 4 workers around here already, should be enough to get WB tooled up in time.
Ultimately, BCR can grow to something like size 18, but it only needs size 14 to one turn knights. I know one of the none riverside workshops can be riverside, and BCR will use all of the sheep, corn and deer to feed the unit factory.
Again, Caste/Guilds/Merc hammer output is 36/40/42, which means that after Caste can change some tiles and start to grow it slowly up to the later game sizes needed for Rifles and Cuirs. Need a market for further happy as stated 2 turns ago, but here I think we have to farm some of the flatland tiles to reach size 14 and then swap everything over to workshops. I'm torn between just forcing units out of here straight away and growing it, but because we still need to get Machinery, Construction etc, this is the best time to grow. After HE is finished (pushed because I wasn't sure if superjm was going to invade, otherwise I would have built it slower) I think it takes around 100 food to reach size 14. Given the amount of tile improvements needed, including the farm>workshops clocking in at around 80 total worker turns, I need to bring another 4 up to support the single worker already here.
I was thinking I needed military out ASAP even for defensive units, but I reckon that need has never really existed except in my paranoia. And given I need Carracks to be able to do anything over in superjms land in response to OT4E, there is a window where building units just increases costs and stockpiles them for later waves: so long as BCR is building a unit per turn shortly before WB is churning out one turn Carracks, other cities will fill up the spare transport capacity and there is minimal need for stockpiling the rather naff units I can build now or in the next 5 turns.
Kalamazoo just takes whatever is left. Both cottages are given over to LBJ and ITM, which leaves 4 plains windmills, one grass windmill, copper mine and two grass workshops.
Caste/Guilds/Merc gives 25/27/29 base hpt at size 11, which needs 58 food for 2 pop growths. Just farming the spare grassland tile and windmilling the hills means growth will be good enough IMO. 2 cats/HA/LB every 3 turns is sound, and more than I expected TBH. The rounding isn't ideal but then it's not solveable until BCR gets to a much large size or Biology.
Overview of the northern industrial area.
Industrious started to turn on once we got forges down: In two turns it will have two copies of a single National Wonder down, but we will not be using it for a few turns. So by the end of the GA I would say it is fair to describe IND as providing a new advantage, and time to see if it is broken. Given the pain I've had from playing with a single trait and a baseline civ so far, I'm not seeing where I can get a payoff that is at the ZOMFG broken level.
What turn did Elkad die? T77-ish. So it's taken 61 turns to go from down a civ conquest, 84 v 69 food to up 337 v 320 and higher in population and land area. Whilst also hitting the boundaries of both horizontal and vertical growth in that time. I wasn't sure we'd reach this point and still have a decent tech position.
Top GNP is OH, but as he just finished a courthouse, I am now 1EP below the level of tech visibility, so I've gone and adjusted Ep spending again.