[Spoilers] Luff_Hi of Japan

[Ruff_Hi]

sniff - warrior died and Yaz and I chatted.

• Ruff:what were the odds?
  
• Yaz:Odds were 66.6% as I upgraded to combat 1 before the fight
  
• Ruff:knew you had a promo due - didn't think it would jump the odds that much
  oh well
  
• Yaz: 4v4.1 to 4.4v4.1 I think it was
  
• Ruff: yeah - I spent some time on the maths and thought that was the best I could do
  you could hit him anywhere he went anyway
  at least he slowed you down by a turn
  
• Yaz: How so? Doesnt' slow me at all. Might want to move that other warrior :D
  
• Ruff: well - maybe half a turn
  that immortal could have been 1 tile closer to my land
  
• Yaz: oh right i could have gone to the grassland instead of the hill
  
• Ruff: what other warrior - check next time you see the game
  
• Yaz: hmm already making use of that copper?
  
  
• Ruff: what copper <really big grin>
  well - it appears that you currently have the upper hand in our land dispute
  
• Yaz: might be temporary, I guess time will tell
  I see you do have some land to your south
  
• Ruff: is there any resolution possible or is this little land tiff turning into a full blow war of extinction?
  I haven't visited down South
  
• Yaz: I would have been in a better position to answer that if my scout new what was south of you
  
• Ruff: are you diverting one of your units down south to review - then we could swap maps and draw up something fair
  
• Yaz: I'm no opposed to peace as it's certainly putting us a LONG way behind the other civs.
  But I'm not going to negotiate blindly
  And I'll be honest that I don't trust you :P
  
• Ruff: any rule in this game about swapping maps?
  
• Yaz: nope
  
• Ruff: want to swap maps - then we can chat
  
• Yaz: You share your completely map then I'll share mine. you first though. Only fair since you struck the first blow in this conflict I think.
  
• Ruff: ok
  will have to be tonight
  and let me just fess up a little bit
  if you read back on our contacts, you will see that I say that I have not visited the south
  
• Yaz: Think you just said it 5 lines ago
  
• Ruff: however, I do know what is down there because I popped a map from a hut
  
• Yaz: I see, so there is a south
  
• Ruff: so - technically, I have not visited down south, but I do know what is there
  not technically lying but very careful selections of wording
  
• Yaz: Indeed it was Krill...er Ruff
  
• Ruff: yeah - good call
  btw - I have a little game with Krill ... every time we chat, I look to find the piece of bullshit that he is trying to sell me ... because it is there in every conversation
  anyway - I will send you some screenshots and then we can talk ... ok?
  
• Yaz: haha indeed. He's been working me for info on this war. I know he's lied to me early on but haven't caught him lately. Though I've been trying to feed him info hoping he gives you bad info
  k
  talk to you later
  
• Ruff: hey - where are you based
  just got the game and I would like to resolve this if I can before I play my set
  
• Yaz: PEI, Canada (atlantic coast)
  
• Ruff: I will be looking at the game in about 8.5 hrs from now
  about 7pm NY time
  
• Yaz: 8PM my time, I'll be around.
  
• Ruff: ok
  
• Yaz: cya then
  

• Ruff: map sent
  
• Yaz: ooh you're early
  does it have a virus?
  
• Ruff: no
  
• Yaz: one sec, will send mine
  What turn is it?
  Sent.
  I took out the strategic resources for obvious reasons (we're not at peace). I will say I have stone in the desert. The two eastern most blackened out tiles are also desert.
  
• Ruff: so - how do we settle this land dispute?
  
• Yaz: Why are you so keen to talk about it now? Just because my units got to the center forest hills first?
  
• Ruff: basically - yes
  this war of mine was always about that hill city site
  it looks like you have it ... so not much reason for me to fight you for it
  
• Yaz: the war took on more than that for me do the surprise backstab of my scout as I saw it
  
• Ruff: 1 sec
  phone
  
• Yaz: So I'm guessing probably harder for me to give it up than you if you're being honest about your reasoning
  
• Ruff: really?
  you lost surprise scout
  I lost warrior
  I did tell you not to scout my land
  but that is history
  
• Yaz: Right
  it's history
  
• Ruff: how about I don't settle West of the bananas
  (the banana between the 2 rice)
  leaving you the land further west of that
  
• Yaz: The one south of your western border edge?
  
• Ruff: 2 SE of your immortal
  
• Yaz: yeah
  
• Ruff: is that 'yeah' I see it or 'yeah', that agreement is ok by me?
  
• Yaz: As far as land goes I have no reason to reject that deal.
  However
  :P
  The way I see I think we have to decide now either to work together to get to end of this game or we might as well just finish this (at least from my stand point)
  
• Ruff: try and finish it now and you will face spears, axes and defensive archers
  you will not be able to do it
  
• Yaz: maybe
  
• Ruff: lets get back in the race and build a working relationship
  I started the war for land
  lost
  up to you if you want to continue it
  and drag us both out of the game
  think about it - have a dog here to walk
  back in about 60 mins
  
• Yaz: k
  

[Ruff_Hi]

Yaz and I have agreed to terms but we are not signing peace in game for a few turns yet. We have also formed a loose alliance called CKA (Confuse Krill Alliance). The main stay of this alliance is not to give any free information away to KRill - he always plays one against the other. I would hate to be his parent because it would have been a constant battle of ...

Krill: Can I go X - mum says I can?

Yaz,

As discussed. We are at peace even though we are still at war in the game. I will send a peace deal when I get writing (5 turns) for OBs. If anyone asks, just say that my terms were unacceptable and that your are looking to push to kill me off.

Terms

NAP through to T100
Auto renewal
20 turn cool off period

I will not settle a city any tile West of the banana near the peak.

Re haven't discussed tech but we should look to maximize tech trade. As I mentioned above, I am 100% on writing (5 turns) and can keep going 100% for quite a while.

Ruff

[novice]

Where are you settling your next city? I have an idea - but will Yaz be happy with that?

[Ruff_Hi]

The 'nasty' spot is 1 N of those bananas (1SW of the dye) but will really piss off Yaz. I am surprised that he didn't mention that spot during out chat. I think I am going off island.

[Ruff_Hi]

@Kyan - how am I going? Too many posts? Not enough? Do you have enough detail to understand what is going on?

[Kyan]

@Kyan - how am I going? Too many posts? Not enough? Do you have enough detail to understand what is going on?

I think you're about right so far. From what i gather the 'war' hasn't gone so well as he's secured the middle ground faster than anticipated.

Kinda sucks but at least you have some expansion room to south. Besides this is an islands map, no need to expand purely on this one

Could you possibly do a recap of trading/planned trades?

[Kyan]

Also, the CKA, is that just you two or are other players involved?

[Ruff_Hi]

So ... Yaz and I have signed a peace deal. It will be signed in game next time I see the turn ... or maybe the turn after that ... after I finish writing anyway.

Got this from him re tech ...

Hey Ruff,

Attached is screenshot (Ruff: Check his thread for that pic) of my current research tree. My plan is to go Mysticism next, then possibly masonry then moving down to monarchy. This is the list of original tech deals that were made very early on in the game. I don't know the current state of them but just sent off a note to SL to find out when he's planning on getting alphabet. If he's going to be late to it and you've got writing soon then might almost make sense for you to go for it yourself since I don't think anybody else is going to try.


SL - Writing & alphabet
Krill - IW & HBR
Darrell - Monotheism & Math
Me - Monarchy

Dreylin didn't make any deals at the start, didn't want to sign off on anything so early. As I said, I don't know how this might have changed though because this was before people knew who they were sharing an island with or before they met anybody else.

Also I've put all my EPs against Darrell for now. If you can see my charts (which I assume you can) then you should probably put yours against SL. We can share their charts when we each have them.

-Yaz

Also had this chat with Dreylin ...

• Dreylin: Hey Ruff, got a sec?
  
• Ruff: sure
  
• Dreylin: Wanted to chat a bit about the PBEM
  
• Ruff: oh right - what about it
  
• Dreylin: I gather you met SL recently?
  
• Ruff: yep - fishing boat
  
• Dreylin: you managing to send out your own, or are all resources set on Kill?
  
• Ruff: his boat
  
• Dreylin: yeah
  wondered if I could expect to see one of yours over the horizon, or if I'll have to send out one of my own to make contact?
  
• Ruff: I don't have one in the water
  who are you paired with?
  SL
  
• Dreylin: yeah
  I'm told that I've got Krill to the East
  
• Ruff: but he shares an island iwth Darrell
  
• Dreylin: that's what I heard
  
• Ruff: Yaz mentioned that he thought the order was D, K, Y, R, ? ?
  cannot remember the order for SL and you
  
• Dreylin: Ah, I'd heard it K, D, Y, R, SL, me
  
• Ruff: I could be wrong
  1 sec while I check
  no - I cannoit see it now
  thought it was in a chat somewhere
  
• Dreylin: Well Krill thinks he's my Eastern neighbour, so he should probably know
  (though we haven't met)
  How's your war going?
  
• Ruff: my war 4 land
  not good
  
• Dreylin: but not bad either?
  
• Ruff: sort of lost
  
• Dreylin: Oh,
  So are you going to be the first casualty?
  if so, I guess there's not much point asking you about techs...
  
• Ruff: 1 sec
  
• Dreylin: np
  
• Ruff: no - i live
  
• Dreylin: OK
  
• Ruff: sorry phone
  
• Dreylin: So everyone else seems to have had their first tech trades lined up since around t3
  have you committed to researching anything yet, or are you floating like me?
  
• Ruff: right - of phone now
  
• Dreylin: aha
  
• Ruff: this is the tech info I have from Yaz ...
  SL - Writing & alphabet
  Krill - IW & HBR
  Darrell - Monotheism & Math
  Me - Monarchy
  I will finish Writing next turn
  
• Dreylin: I was wondering if was your "Toku" character
  
• Ruff: unclear where I am heading after that
  no, it was total distraction
  
• Dreylin: heh
  
• Ruff: and my Toku character is not silent ... he has a plan and is so far sticking to it
  
• Dreylin: Cool
  
• Ruff: those techs above are from Yaz's point of view
  so it looks like a 4 way trade thingo
  
• Dreylin: Yeah, that's pretty-much what I'd heard as well
  
• Ruff: I wuld like to get in on the alphabet thing but unsure what to offer to trade
  
• Dreylin: of course Krill now has MC as well
  
• Ruff: I have sailing and archery
  
• Dreylin: I'm about to grab Sailing, and have the upper religious techs
  but nothing firmed up in the pipeline yet
  
• Ruff: I could trade you sailing if you can wait
  
• Dreylin: not really ... need to jump landmasses fairly soon
  
• Ruff: me too
  
• Dreylin: SL is researching as well
  
• Ruff: isn't he on alphabet?
  
• Dreylin: yeah, he got sidetracked
  
• Ruff: I wonder what his timing is
  
• Dreylin: thinks the Trade Routes will make up for lost time on Alpha
  
• Ruff: if he has 5 cities
  
• Dreylin: (I'm not sure if you/Yaz would open borders for off-continent routes)
  since they would be one-way
  
• Ruff: he has OB with YAz
  
• Dreylin: OK
  maybe Yaz has a boat out as well?
  
• Ruff: he hasn't talked to me about OB
  I think Yaz was building troops
  
• Dreylin: that's what I'd thought.
  So Yaz is giving SL a gift there
  
• Ruff: unless Yaz has sailing
  
• Dreylin: But he has to have visibility to SL's borders, right?
  
• Ruff: ahh - very tru
  so - yes he is
  wonder if he knows that
  I could block SL trade by declaring war on him <evil grin>
  
• Dreylin: I've been wondering about the worth of trying to get into the trade circle
  Heh
  after all, I'd think that helping Krill out is a bad idea at this stage
  
• Ruff: Yaz and I have agreed to form a very funny alliance
  want to join
  it is called CKA (Confuse Krill Alliance)
  
• Dreylin: I wouldn't need to declare war on you guys would I?
  
  
• Ruff: on the basis that he is always fishing for information
  
• Dreylin: yeah, I've been going for the stonewall approach
  
• Ruff: krill and I play a game ... he tries to bullshit me and I try and spot the bullshit
  he knows about it
  
• Dreylin: aha
  
• Ruff: I'm jumping onto the game to get a timing on some techs
  
• Ruff: I'm thinking of going down the Lit path
  still there?
  
• Dreylin: yeah, sorry
  OK, that would fit if I jumped out to CoL
  
• Ruff: IW will be pretty big on this map too
  
• Dreylin: really?
  
• Ruff: ok ... you going to float those ideas to the others?
  I have a fair bit of jungle
  
• Dreylin: Ah, lucky boy
  there's no tech to make Tundra worthwhile.... <shrug>
  
• Ruff: lol
  biology?
  
• Dreylin: need fresh water
  & Tundra can't spread irrigation
  
• Ruff: oh
  well that sucks
  
• Dreylin: (actually I'm not certain whether Bio changes that)
  
• Ruff: what is the tech way down the list that means you can farm anything?
  
• Dreylin: Yeah, that's Bio
  
• Ruff: but not much good
  +1f and that is about it
  
• Dreylin: but without water you get 2f Tundra....
  
• Ruff: worthless
  well - that is the plan ... you head for CoL and I go Aeth and Lit
  
• Dreylin: seems like it should work
  
• Ruff: you going to contact the other cheating bastards?
  
• Dreylin: Hmmm?
  
• Ruff: as in those poeple that set up trades on T3
  
• Dreylin: I'm exchanging e-mails with a couple already
  Well we did allow it in the rules
  
• Ruff: yeah - I have no problem with it
  can you let them know to contact me if they are interested in Aeth and Lit pls?
  
• Dreylin: sure
  
• Ruff: thx
  oh - when are you sailing past for a cup of tea?
  
• Dreylin: np
  could be a little while
  Exploration seems to be pretty low on my priority list this game
  another change from PBEM1
  
• Ruff: ok
  you are to my east ... is that right?
  
• Dreylin: but with full trading allowed, we can always go via the others
  Yeah
  
• Ruff: oh right
  forgot about that
  this game could get really backstabbie
  
• Dreylin: Of course since everyone is going to bang "no trade" clauses on the techs, I don't really know why we couldn't have had brokering off
  yeah
  
• Ruff: yeah - but someone could forget
  
• Dreylin: heh
  
• Ruff: it also means that you cannot tell who researeched the tech
  
• Dreylin: ah, true
  
• Ruff: well - good chatting to you ... I will ask some of my fisher men to drop by
  but it might take a small while
  
• Dreylin: sure
  I need to commission some of my own!
  
• Ruff: yep - ok, good night from me ... thx for the chat
  
• Dreylin: g'night
  

So ... to answer the question re tech trades ... I have nothing set up at the moment except for Fishing + Archery to Krill for IW and HBR (I think that is right - this was set up ages ago).

I will be teching Aeth and Lit after I finishing writing - well, actually - I will be going back to zero and whipping up some Libraries first. I also want to get some boats out for intercontinental trade ... so many things to do, so little time.

[Ruff_Hi]

Japan and America:

PREAMBLE
Desiring to strengthen the bonds of peace and friendship traditionally existing between them
To uphold the principles of growth and development, complete leader control and the supremacy of play by email games,
Desiring further to encourage closer economic cooperation between them and to promote conditions of economic stability and growth in their civilizations,
Reaffirming their faith in the purposes and principles of Civilization IV, and their desire to subjugate and control all peoples,
Recognizing that they have the inherent right of individual or collective self-defense as affirmed by The Combat System,
Considering that they have a common concern in the maintenance of international misunderstanding and confusion (non-Party members only),
Having resolved to conclude a treaty of mutual cooperation and security,
Therefore agree as follows:

ARTICLE I
The Parties stipulate that news, knowledge, acknowledgment of this treaty will not be communicated by any means with any other player, ever (except to the other Party).

ARTICLE II
Both Parties agree that there will be no active military action between the two parties during the course of the treaty. However, phony war declarations are allowable to support ARTICLE I providing the other party is notified prior to the declaration.

ARTICLE III
Both Parties accept that America has right of first refusal on all tiles west of Persia's current capital, subject to ARTICLE V. As such, it is America's responsibility to remove any foreign infestation on said area. Japan will readily provide information and logistic support as available. Any Japanese military involvement in the area described above is at the sole discretion of Japan.

ARTICLE IV
Both Parties accept that Japan has right of first refusal on all tiles east of Persia's current capital, subject to ARTICLE V. As such, it is Japan's responsibility to remove any foreign infestation on said area. America will readily provide information and logistic support as available. Any American military involvement in the area described above is at the sole discretion of America.

ARTICLE V
Both Parties accept that the subdivide between east and west will be jointly determined when such map knowledge available to both parties enables them to equitably agree to such a sub-division.

ARTICLE VI
Both Parties agree that, subject to ARTICLE VII and ARTICLE VIII, both parties will work together as much as possible regarding technology and resource trades. Ideally, the other party will be the preferred trading partner.

ARTICLE VII
Both Parties accept that any and all technology trades will be at the full discretion of the Party involved in such. The other Party will have no veto rights regarding self researched (or otherwise obtained) technologies.

ARTICLE VIII
Both Parties accept that any and all resource trades will be at the full discretion of the Party involved in such. The other Party will have no veto rights regarding such trades.

ARTICLE IX
Both Parties have complete discretion regarding the sharing of information with the other Party, except where ARTICLE X is involved.

ARTICLE X
Both Parties are required to share information with the other Party where that information impacts on the security concerns of the other Party.

ARTICLE XI
This Treaty shall remain in force until it is the opinion of both Parties that the treaty is no longer required, in which case the Treaty shall terminate 15 turns after such agreement has been reached

In witness whereof the undersigned have signed this Treaty.
Luff_Hi of Japan
The New Dealer of America

Ratified on this turn, Turn 44 - 1360 B.C.

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Treaty_of_...of_America

[Ruff_Hi]

Also, the CKA, is that just you two or are other players involved?

CKA is just me and Yaz at the moment. Mentioned it to Dreylin and Darrell and they both liked the idea. They may join. It doesn't have any teeth.