We just watch. And Judge. FFH PBEM III Lurker Thread.

[Gaspar]

I find it really quirky the amount of time folks play full-on builder FFH games. In this game, WK and Thoth are clearly playing what I would call more FFH-style games, while the others are playing varying sorts. Mardoc is absolved, because I sort of think of Lanun as the BTS Civ, certainly its the easiest Civ to adapt to from BTS. But Irgy is definitely playing a builder game with a decidedly non-builder Civ. WKs play impresses me because he's stuck to beelines and dug deep in the tree towards his goals, rather than getting distracted to pick up everything. That's a hard habit to break when you play FFH, in my opinion. Thoth is doing good builder stuff behind the lines (though he certainly has been lucky as well) but took his first opportunity. I do think he's playing too cautious in the war, but regardless, he's looking at everyone as his rival, which I think is smart play in this game.

I still haven't really caught up on Nyk's thread, but I'd bet good money that the only reason a Bannor invasion is on the cards is Mr. Yellow's aggressive settling and poor diplomacy.

[Caustic Soda]

^True enough. I don't really understand MrYellow or Irgys strategy at all. MrYellow settled aggressively and did aggressive diplomacy with no military to back it up, and Irgy took a Civ with no economy-aiding abilities whatsoever and chooses to play builder. Granted, the Sheaim aren't nearly as bad off econ-wise as the Clan, Doviello or Illians are, but that really isn't saying very much at all.

WarriorKnight has really been able to leverage his Worldspell to skimp on the military in favor of expansion. His gamble with leaving no troops at home at the start has paid off. I do think it makes relatively good sense for Nyktorion to go builder with the elves, though. Since their economy depends on Cottages, Ancient Forests, and Bloom, it takes a lot of time to get going. Their Worldspell and Gilden/Archers do allow for a relatively early war, though, such as the one we will soon see against MrYellow.

[Edit: I wrote Nyktorion. It *always* said Nyktorion ]

[Brian Shanahan]

Caustic I believe you mean Nyktorin with the elves this time. Uber is in PBEM2.

[Bobchillingworth]

I dunno, learning that someone else's ded lurker is paranoid about me isn't exactly thrilling news.

This cracked me up


"My dedicated lurker doesn't like you, so I deleted one of my own units" is one of the more inventive excuses I've seen deployed here


Reminds me of this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68BrauMLt...re=related


Edit: Also, there's this, from Mr. Yellow-

Finally, hope this will turn the tide. Took his sweet time though. Still no words on the extension of the NAP, which expires in 3 turns.....

WAIT A SEC!!

Poor guy finally gets a clue... about thirty turns too late

[NobleHelium]

Yeah, looks like Nytorion messed up a bit there. Saying 4 turns would have been better.

[Selrahc]

With the Bannor reduced to a rump state, and Elves and Desert folk carving up the last of it, let's do a quick autopsy.

I think Mr Yellow really did have quite bad land. His capital was nice, his further expansion prospects were quite poor.

In that light, I think the decision to aggressively settle towards people is understandable. But pushing against all his neighbours at once without military carries risks, and we have seen them illustrated quite well.

I think he was reluctant to settle any coastal cities, despite having room for quite a few. While there may be downsides to coastal cities, they are generally still worth the time.

Once the war started I think the diplomacy got better. But by then it was far too late. I think the defence in general was decently run. No big mistakes... Although it was obviously a losing proposition without either bronze or foreign aid.

I'm not sure there was a clear enough focus in the Bannor game.
In an early post, Mr Yellow laid out his plan...

Anyway, I got 3 goals to follow here.
1: Reach Fanaticism and still have a foot in the game.
2: CRUSADE!
3: Win either through domination or religion

It's the normal Bannor plan. To execute it successfully, just stay alive until reaching fanatacism.

With his super aggressive early play however, I think Mr Yellow probably picked the wrong civ.

A proper early unique unit or some half decent early war traits might have made Thoth and Nyktorion a lot more gun-shy.

[Ravus Sol]

Well I've decided to spoil myself of this game, Mr Yellow seems about to be marginalized and i'm sure he views me as the late ded-lurker to the party who shouldn't question things. Probably true i guess. But anyway was it just me or did he seemed determined to not change his long term plans or adapt much? He did better when he had war on his doorstep but still only mildly.

Having not read anything else yet, this thread or the other nation spoilers, I'd say his aggressive "I have bad land so you should let me settle what I want" policy to negotiations probably was the main part in his downfall. Although I suppose you can just sum that up as lack of adaptability. Wanting to play an expansionist game and unwilling to change to turtling, Diplomatic or pure warfare...

Anyway i'm off to read all the others nations then come back to the lurkers thread.

[Caustic Soda]

^I trhink you're right about MrYellows settling/negotiating causing his downfall, Ravus. TBH, it seems almost like MrYellow was completely unable to deal with the fact that humans, unlike AIs, will get annoyed/angry if you settle aggressively towards them. Granted his land wasn't the best in the game, but his decision to focus so solely on expansion had risks that MrYellow never really made it clear if he understood. For example, his settling of Vallus and trinity were very, very aggressive, and yet he reacted with anger when Nyktorion settled towards him, and with surprise and outrage when he realized the elves would attack him. That doesn't seem very reasonable to me, although of course I am rather less emotionally invested in the game than the players are.

[Brian Shanahan]

Well Mr. Yellow did do one thing right in the game. He did manage to convince Mardoc that he was the wronged party in the war, instead of being the wronging one. Now that made absolutely no difference in the end, but it does colour Mardoc's relations with Thoth in a big way, and may influence the course of the game massively.

[Caustic Soda]

^True that, and admittedly if I were in MrYellows shoes I might well have made similar mistakes, although I'd like to think that I wouldn't be quite as pushy. It'll be interesting to see how long Mardocs perception of events will be colored by MrYellows diplomacy.