Uncommonly Good: A Story of Elves

[Mardoc]

Wow - RG threw away a lot more help than I'd realized by failing to keep lurkers entertained.

Not that you're much good as a dedlurker without a window into the game I can see it now:

From the tech thread, it looks like you've made it to T120? You should have 15 cities and a religion by now, probably Empy. And make sure to build a military capable of resisting the mighty Grigori forces.

[Gaspar]

Lots to discuss that's not about the game - I'll hit that stuff later on after the turn. But first, a turn - perhaps our last for a while.

Chronic completed a Kilmorph temple - now onto a Priest. We need to get Leaves into all of our other cities - its an interesting question as to whether its more economical to build disciples and let them build their own temples or to just build Priests. My inclination is to build priests, but its certainly worth debate. With how fast AV spreads it'll never spread naturally again, probably.

Research turned back on - Corruption of Spirit due in 3T. AV temples all around after that. After Chronic and Paradise City complete their current builds I'm going to have them bang out some settlers and workers. I'd like to add Cypress Hill's superior production to that, but I'd like to see it max out growth first.

Rawkking's new city is here, and he's ready to bang out another. Need to get our last two out shortly.



Here's an updated shot of the tech screen:

[NobleHelium]

Letum Frigus eh...

[Mardoc]

Lots to discuss that's not about the game - I'll hit that stuff later on after the turn.

You've got me wondering, anyway .

As for the turn itself, I'm only really got one comment. Everything else is going according to plan.

On the disciple v Priest question, I think it depends on the city you're spreading to, and which temple it is. The thing about Leaves temples is that they're not urgent in any non-happiness capped city. They only give culture and happiness, both of which are in adequate supply.

Kilmorph and Ashen Veil (in the event of a unspread to city) are both more urgent, because of the bonuses, so I'd do those with priests when possible.

And...priests are going to average being somewhat more efficient, since they can't fail to spread. So as our average number of religions/city increases, we ought to try to swap to using priests for the duty.

[Gaspar]

Nothing too exciting, Mardoc - just that there were many posts and I'd not yet responded.

Go do something funny!

Maybe this is an appropriate place to discuss FFH PBEM14?

Fair enough on the do something funny. I owe you guys another episode of the hi-jinks of the Ljosalfar High Council at a minimum. Sadly the jokes I had lined up for the episode I've not yet posted are now outdated, but I'm sure I can come up with something. I'll touch on the other bit in a moment.

And while I’m blathering about unrelated information, I have to say that I’ll be very disappointed if you don’t send/post THIS
for your enemy if/when we finally go to war. Seems to sum up your rep quite well.

Would it be weird if I told you my original imagining of the Ljosalfar High Council was as the nWo? In that case, I'd have definitely sent the Wolfpack theme on a wardec. "Don't turn your back on the Ljosalfar, you might wind up in a bodybag..." Perhaps just the glass shattering from the original SCSA theme? (When you hear the glass, it means your ass...) I have too much time on my hands, right?

Gaspar is probably busy playing beachcomber for the next little while, anyway, with his BTS friends.

That hurts. You guys are always my first love. I haven't thought much about the next game - I guess partly because I wanted to see where we were with EitB and whether we should start using that for RB games. EitB is a bit different than RBMod for BTS. FFH2 is truly broken - not just in that glorious everything's broken sort of way - there are clearly many things for which no reasonable counter exists. While that's fun, a more reasonably balanced game does appeal so long as it maintains the over-the-top madness of base FFH. BTS is more or less balanced if you exclude a couple annoying things.

That said - I absolutely am 100% committed to playing another FFH game with you guys. My ability to play multiple games is sort of directly correlated to how much I have to be the sole turnplayer. Here I have you fellows who help me out. In the new game, Commodore and I will share the load. So I could sign up for a game with you lads no problem. I just haven't seen any new games being mooted nor have I any grand idea for the next game. I suppose we can discuss this in the next week or so where there are no turns?

Oh, I also looked at the actual game quickly last night. We’re now at the point where City States would save us money compared to God King. I’m tempted to say we hang on to the hammer bonus on the possibility we want to go for the Great Library, but it’s nearly time to switch.

My thought precisely was to see where we are when Marble is hooked and we have the requisite Libraries built. If the GLib is still available then, let's build it then switch. If not, we can switch sooner. Kaya coming out of revolt is only going to make it more expensive. Will definitely miss the production bonus in the capital. Right now it and Cypress Hill are the only strong production cities.

Apparently Brian will be invading Acalostas very shortly, with Kyan. With an army of Horsemen. He posted his latest update in the tech thread

I don't see how we can pretend we didn't see it. Although really it's not new info for us, the only news is the army composition. And the complete trust in Kyan.

That was some major Nothing different than what we saw in diplo though.

Wow - RG threw away a lot more help than I'd realized by failing to keep lurkers entertained.

Not that you're much good as a dedlurker without a window into the game I can see it now:

Letum Frigus eh...

Yeah. RG has really been a crummy neighbor. If not for Kyan I'd definitely be gearing up to attack him. Settling towards us with all that room in the west.

[Man Behind the Mask]

Apparently Brian will be invading Acalostas very shortly, with Kyan. With an army of Horsemen. He posted his latest update in the tech thread

Quite sad that at T120, he’s using Golden Age production to kickstart an attack with S4 and 3 units (still no Bronzeworking!). Even sadder that it will probably be successful.

Chronic completed a Kilmorph temple - now onto a Priest.

Should that Priest be going to the Sheaim? I think we’re ok, but I really don’t wanting Nic taking the Brian approach and allying with Kyan, with an excuse that we didn’t live up to some ill-defined deal.

…its an interesting question as to whether its more economical to build disciples and let them build their own temples or to just build Priests.

I think Mardoc’s right that the nuances are 1. Urgency, and 2. Need for guaranteed spread, and I’ll add 3. Hammer capabilities of receiving city.

Here's an updated shot of the tech screen

Can’t see everything with the position of the scrollbars , but: Kyan has the full set of magic techs necessary for Sorcery; RG can go for Feudalism, so must have recently picked up Trade – maybe we’ll see some chariots (and if he goes to Deception then he can join Kyan in Undercouncil).

That hurts. You guys are always my first love. I haven't thought much about the next game - I guess partly because I wanted to see where we were with EitB and whether we should start using that for RB games.

You know that I jest . We always get the best turn reports

On the subject of a new game, I’d estimate that we may only have 35 turns to play in this one. By T155, we’ll know how effective Kyan has been against the Grigori and Sheaim, whether RG’s initial offensive has gained any steam, and where we stand ourselves. If nobody has landed a significant blow on the Balseraphs at that point, we’re only playing on for Clown (and lurker) entertainment. I suspect Brian may want to see how far he can progress with Sanctuary in play, but with the techs, mana nodes and capture gold available, Kyan could complete the Towers in no time flat if that was the chosen victory.

I’ll have a think about ideas for a fun and “fair” game in base FFH. I’m not sure I’ve got the hang of the current game without having to relearn again for EiTB

[Mardoc]

When it comes to EitB vs FFH, it's a hard choice. I can easily see myself with 3+ versions of EitB on my computer at this rate. And worse - in my head!

I think, all things considered, EitB will eventually take over. Because taking out the horribly broken stuff makes it just better. The problem is, it's a work in progress, which makes it a smidgen difficult to round up enough interested parties and to keep track of the current state of the mod. I'll also try in 13 to describe things in detail, especially changes from regular FFH, so that we can get people interested.

I agree FFH is unbalanced, but I think if everyone goes for the strong options (or they're banned) and the mapmaker has some idea what they're doing, it can work out.

So all said - preferences for the next game? It depends on when it starts, but I think straight FFH would be easier to arrange. I'd try for that. And definitely try to get an aristofarm civ this time, with their main strength in the midgame - vamps, malakim, hippus, bannor, balseraphs, and many more are all viable in my opinion.

One just needs a good set of picks and bans. And to some extent - the metagame can take care of problems too. If people generally agreed to beat on Keeyln early and often, she'd be much less powerful. For that matter, I think part of her strength demonstrated so far is lucky map draws and the stronger players in the respective games.

[Gaspar]

On the subject of a new game, I’d estimate that we may only have 35 turns to play in this one. By T155, we’ll know how effective Kyan has been against the Grigori and Sheaim, whether RG’s initial offensive has gained any steam, and where we stand ourselves. If nobody has landed a significant blow on the Balseraphs at that point, we’re only playing on for Clown (and lurker) entertainment. I suspect Brian may want to see how far he can progress with Sanctuary in play, but with the techs, mana nodes and capture gold available, Kyan could complete the Towers in no time flat if that was the chosen victory.

I’ll have a think about ideas for a fun and “fair” game in base FFH. I’m not sure I’ve got the hang of the current game without having to relearn again for EiTB

This was sort of a factor as well. I also don't believe there's a lot of time left here, so I wondered if it wasn't worth waiting until it was closer to its conclusion.

As far as settings, the only thought I had was to maybe try a Highlands-based script. That would change the game in several fundamental ways. 1. Dwarves stronger (but Khazad significantly more than Luchuirp) 2. Speed reduced. 3. OO nerfed. Not sure that by itself is enough but I thought it might be interesting. I certainly don't want a bleak/barren map like FFH6 - I don't think anyone wants that, which if you read the map thread, we said at the time.

Other things - even after our lousy comparative luck this game I still prefer huts/lairs on - its a big piece of what makes FFH what it is. I wouldn't be opposed to a FIN ban - the whole difference between our GNP and Rawkkings is FIN. If its not banned, I wouldn't play without a FIN civ.

Well, that can get the ball rolling. Of course, we should probably stick to settings chat - anyone can read this including potential opponents. No need to give away the full gameplan for free.

[Mardoc]

I certainly don't want a bleak/barren map like FFH6 - I don't think anyone wants that, which if you read the map thread, we said at the time.

Let me off this cart! I'm not dead yet!

Ok, so I'll be able to read it soon. . Frankly, if we played with Compact Enforced, I'd be fine playing another dead lands game like that. Or for that matter - if it were an Adventure instead of a PBEM, so finding the overpowered strategies was a fun game instead of a 'dang, that feels unfair'.

I do like the idea of trying something different for a map. Highlands is certainly one reasonable possiblity. Another would be something like archipelago (Lanun/OO banned) or Arboreal (elves banned).

Well, that can get the ball rolling. Of course, we should probably stick to settings chat - anyone can read this including potential opponents. No need to give away the full gameplan for free.

The ball won't be rolling until someone makes a post in the general forum asking for a game . I know that Tasunke character gave it a whirl, although his request to use a mod no one here plays with probably killed it.

Shall we start an e-mail conversation? I've got your and MBTM's addresses, and could add Azoth and NobleHelium if they're around and interested.

[Man Behind the Mask]

I definitely think we can mull over preferences/setup while we wait for the Hippus Holiday to be over. If for nothing else, then because the other teams will wonder what the hell we’re up to! Happy to have more detailed chats by email.

I‘ve been trying to come up with a way to see the late-game civs get a chance of showing off what they’ve got. That would also eliminate legitimate concerns about using “advanced start” to skip the early game tedium. However, many of the civs with no early advantage simply need that beginning period to set up their game – Bannor to grow cottages, Sidar to farm experience, Khazad to collect gold for vaults. So as much as I’d like to see the Amurites, Luchuirp, and Sheaim stomping around with late-game toys, I don’t think that would be achievable in a fair way.

An option for “fun” games would be something with more of a roleplaying bent. Elves vs. Dwarves, good vs evil etc, although they lend themselves a little more to team games. One fun idea I had was some kind of “capture the flag” event. The victory condition would be taking a superpowered city at the centre of the map. The civs are free to do what they like amongst eachother, but can only win by wiping out the Big Baddy. My big worry would be the mapmaker challenge balancing the difficulty/timing of the final showdown.