PBEM on Sevens new mapscript

[Qgqqqqq]

Kyan is unable to hit RB at the moment, but I can say that we had a leader definitively chosen before Ceilizul revealed to us.
If everyone is able to pick independently of said information, then we can proceed as normal.
I am (personally) fine with a reset though.

[SevenSpirits]

It's not so much about picking for me, as about t0 settler moves.

[Krill]

Yeah. New everything (maps, leader/civ combinations, play order) is fine, or just new map. The spoiler information changes a lot of things.

[Kyan]

I wanted (and still want) to play a game on a script-generated map. One of the consequences of that is you have to figure out your start. I don't want extra information about it handed to me.

In which case, why see starts at all? Perhaps I was incorrect in the assumption that we wanted to see the food so that nobody was 'accidentally' hamstrung by their civ pick?

I always intended to settle in place, because I trust the tool. My question was simply why did the mapmaker black both foods out (turns out he didn't).

It's not reasonable that some players have just been given spoiler knowledge about the map and others haven't - that is why I preferred Kyan just pick with the knowledge that he had 2 food resources in the fog, picking conservatively. However, the compromise I suggested was that everyone got some spoiler knowledge, just got completely ignored.

I don't understand. How has any advantage been garnered? I'm assuming you could see one of your two foods. So, you had an advantage before. Now I know one of mine. Now we're all even again surely?

I did not ask for a rule change, I was requesting clarification on a decision because I was under the belief that all of us had our foods 'fogged out' on the map and that was not what was requested.

Why can't we just play on, rather than delay further?

[SevenSpirits]

I wanted (and still want) to play a game on a script-generated map. One of the consequences of that is you have to figure out your start. I don't want extra information about it handed to me.

In which case, why see starts at all?

I didn't vote to see starts, so my motivation for wanting to see starts may be beside the point. But I like to see starts early for two reasons:
1) It lets you start thinking ahead to t0 planning before you get the first save, which is fun.
2) It gives you something concrete to differentiate your picking dilemma from every other game, and results in suboptimal civs getting more attention when the situation calls for them. In particular, fishing is a weak starting tech, and seafood are a weak starting food, but together they are reasonable.

"Seeing your start" (which in past games we've done it has meant seeing your t0 view, which I guess you didn't realize) is a very different concept in my mind from having more tiles in your starting BFC revealed. I would have objected if you guys had decided the latter while I was sleeping.

[BRickAstley]

Ceil said he would hand off the map re-roll to me, since there were issues with the first map. Here's the list of settings I am aware of:

• Torusland
  
• standard size
  
• 6 players
  
• ancient/quick
  
• waterways (29%)
  
• 1 improvement per 30 tiles
  
• stack starting units (settler and scout for everyone)
  
• 36x36 tiles
  
• no barbs
  
• seeing starts prior to picks
  
• Prince Difficulty

Are all of these correct?

Also, for general disclosure, there are potential issues that have been noted in general by lurkers when rolling one of these maps, a few follow:

• some players start seeing more of their BFC & starting foods than others do
  
• unnatural/overpowered tiles (i.e. grassland gold) at the start/nearby
  
• unnatural/overpowered improvements (grassland riverside windmill) nearby
  
• differences in *walking distance* between rivals. (one civ might be a lot more boxed in than others)
  
• "my" resources (with balanced resources selected) on the wrong side of lakes.
  
• gross differences in luxury access (like 5 for one player, 12 for another)

Since these seem to be introduced by the map script, I think there's two options to approaching getting a final map:
1) Just rolling up the first map, and using that, letting be what might generate
2) Giving the mapmaker discretion to re-roll or edit a map in order to have what he would consider a "fair" start and placement for everybody

For issues of clarity so that we don't have another re-roll, please indicate which method of setting up a map you want for this game, method 1 or 2.

[SevenSpirits]

I'm really disappointed that I and others were spoiled about things we can't see, after posting here that I was in disagreement about changing the rules mid-game, which I believe should not be done without signoff of all players.

However if everyone else is OK continuing with what we have, and writing it off as glitchy map randomness, I'm OK with that too. It has the distinct advantages of avoiding any more freaking last-second rule change proposals, and being faster.

[Krill]

What Seven Said.

[Kyan]

Ok, I vote to carry on.

Seven/Krill- I had no idea I was requesting a rule change. I was asking for info that I was under the belief would be available to me.

[Ichabod]

After some more thought, I think playing on feels like this game will start on the wrong foot. Rolling a new map shouldn't take that long. Starting one day later won't make a difference, but starting things with bad blood might. So I vote for new map, using the choice number 1).