PB27 Signup Thread

[Krill]

You'd have thought that I could be given some credit and trust by now...

[dtay]

Not a dealbreaker if we use 3.whatever, but mildly prefer 2.7.whatever.

[BRickAstley]

Whichever version it is played in it will still be fun so don't get up in a tizzy about it.

[Grimace]

Whichever version it is played in it will still be fun so don't get up in a tizzy about it.

I generally like the current RtR. Don't know if I'll like the new one as much, but frankly I'd still play even if it was base BtS. So long as it's not crazy game-breaking in some way, it's all good.

EDIT: And thank you, Krill (and the others involved), for spending so much of your time trying to make the MP game as balanced and fun as you can.

[WilliamLP]

Yeah you can consider me out for this one, I just need a long break from thinking about the game. I do think that one true way to play all games despite what the players (think they) want is an absurd goal though. For some people (or maybe just me) "misplays" due to lack of early information, and the forces of destiny that come from random and varied starting positions, are a lot of the charm of the game. And yes it may mean the "best" players, by some set of criteria, don't win as consistently, that's part of the charm too.

[Krill]

Let me be absolutely clear on what the major changes to 3.0.0.1 do, compared to 2.0.7.4:

• Espionage. The (remaining) active missions were removed. That stops tech stealing, and the destruction of city improvements, projects which break culture and Space victories. It also stops the cheese culture victories of dropping culture into 3 opponents cities and then capturing them once they go past legendary for instant win. This is already implemented in 2.0.7.6.
  
  
• Tech scaling costs: Ancient era tech costs are lower on Huge maps. Late game costs are lowered compared to PB18 size games but with a similar general cost increase to RtR rather than base BtS (ie Education is more expensive in RtR 3.0.0.1 than BtS, SS is more competitive compared to culture).
  
  
• Civics given another pass (OK this is more extensive). Merc moved backward and buffed, FS are buffed. Serfdom and Emancipation are buffed. Representation moved forward slightly in tech tree.
  
  
• Some uncommon and very common civs have been rebalanced and starting techs changed to take 4 turns at Normal/Monarch regardless of map size.
  
  
• Charismatic is buffed with improvements to Colosseum (it gives bit of XP plus happiness) and minor changes to how to reach commando. Creative gets cheap Libraries back but loses some culture. Financial gains +1 commerce on tiles that generate +3 commerce but gains river bonus commerce.
  
  
• Barb animals are weaker and scout has bigger bonus against them (not punished for being unlucky, barb animals start to disappear from T25 on monarch/normal).
  
  
• Work boats are 25 food hammers (low hammer seafood starts not punished anymore). New naval building that gives +1 commerce on coastal tiles (Fin can get bonus on coastal tiles, other leaders can profit from coastal tiles).
  
  
• Towns and villages can't be pillaged but provide access to coal, oil, aluminium and uranium.
  
  
• Capital always makes 2 hammers regardless of starting tile (No more map maker fuck ups).

Really, what's unexpected here? Half of it is stuff integrated from ToW which has been planned for years.

[plako]

Took a look at Novice's github. It contains all the SMEG mod changes also. Would help a lot, if someone could tell me which changes I should ignore. I presume all changes up to 7.1.2015 should be included. So I would need guidance concerning these cahnges:

Commits on Jan 08, 2015

Extended XML schema for Civics …
Extended XML schema for Civics to allow for Civics enabling more kinds
of special effects from buildings.

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Commits on Jan 13, 2015

Reading new XML tags in dll and showing texts …
DLL logic for reading, writing and parsing new xml tags for civics is
implemented. Logic for creating civic description partially updated, to
reflect some new tags. The actual effects described are not implemented
yet. Added test tags to DESPOTISM. (But they have no effect except
affecting the civic description.)

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Commits on Jan 14, 2015

Reading all the new civic xml tags in the dll.

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Commits on Jan 16, 2015

Completed civic description logic and sample xml …
Added example xml for all new civic xml options to base civics.
Civilopedia article for civic displays all effects specified in xml.

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Commits on Jan 17, 2015

Implemented building yields from civics effect. …

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Commits on Jan 26, 2015

Implemented civics xml tags effects …
Implemented free specialists, free xp, commerce and yield modifiers from
buildings depending on civics.

ToW tech cost scaling …
Implemented tech cost scaling as specified in the ToW mod.

Added building civiliopedia / tooltip help text …
Made help text for buildings take new xml tags into account.

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Commits on Jan 27, 2015

Fixed tooltip help for modifiers …
Fixed tooltip help for yields modifiers and commerce modifiers in city
screen.

Added tooltip for AGG maintenance reduction …
Added maintenance tooltip for AGG maintenance reduction
(iCityUpkeepModifier tag on leader traits)

Added iCityUpkeepModifier effect to traits description …

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Commits on Mar 03, 2015

Adding settled great person for PHI …
Adding settled great person to a city where a great person is produced,
for PHI leaders.

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Commits on Mar 19, 2015

Support for traits on civilizations. …
Support for traits on civilizations. Civilopedia / help text do not show
traits from civs, but their effects apply.

--
Commits on Mar 22, 2015

Improved civilopedia and tooltip info on civilization traits.

[Commodore]

Not everyone was super hyped about ToW. And are you backing out of your game mode forcing now?

I do think that one true way to play all games despite what the players (think they) want is an absurd goal though. For some people (or maybe just me) "misplays" due to lack of early information, and the forces of destiny that come from random and varied starting positions, are a lot of the charm of the game. And yes it may mean the "best" players, by some set of criteria, don't win as consistently, that's part of the charm too.

/\ this.

Mostly, it just feels like 2.7.0.4 is already in a very sweet spot, balance-wise (although PB18 folks are making a compelling case for the .6 change...) Where does this end? I don't see any reason for the sweeping civics reset; some will remain niche, I'm fine with Spiritual getting the boost. The argument for quays seems to be largely aesthetic...

[Krill]

The plan is to keep the DLL the same.

I think this is not a particularly wise idea though...

[Krill]

Not everyone was super hyped about ToW. And are you backing out of your game mode forcing now?

I do think that one true way to play all games despite what the players (think they) want is an absurd goal though. For some people (or maybe just me) "misplays" due to lack of early information, and the forces of destiny that come from random and varied starting positions, are a lot of the charm of the game. And yes it may mean the "best" players, by some set of criteria, don't win as consistently, that's part of the charm too.

/\ this.

Mostly, it just feels like 2.7.0.4 is already in a very sweet spot, balance-wise (although PB18 folks are making a compelling case for the .6 change...) Where does this end? I don't see any reason for the sweeping civics reset; some will remain niche, I'm fine with Spiritual getting the boost. The argument for quays seems to be largely aesthetic...

Forcing what? The map trade stuff is a change to a game option. You don't have to play with it. In fact not implementing it is my preferred option because I think map trading is a good thing but giving people options that aren't poisonous seems to be a cause of a revolt: it looks like it's better to be a tyrant than a benevolent dictator FFS.

The Merc change is pushing it back so it's a second tier Ren era tech like FM to stop the beeline of a one right choice civic because that entire line is so strong, Rep is swapped into Nationalism to keep tech balance and doesn't affect civic balance in that column. FS isn't even used right now and needs the buff. Caste is probably the definition of the one right choice but can't be nerfed due to flavour so Serfdom and Emancipation need to be brought up to that level, just like happened with the Economy civics. There aren't any other civic changes.

Quays are there because of the "punitive" nature of starting with a river and it's essentially a return to FIN from 4 years ago. Tech cost scaling is just obvious and seems to be something that is agreed is a plus. Charismatic is rarely picked and people always complain it's weak, so what's the problem with the buffs? The work boat change isn't something I suggested in the first place either.

I can understand the complaints with the first few iterations of the change log, they went pretty far. But this is mostly bug fixes with about 3 flavour changes (CRE, FIN/Quay and barbs).