Civilization 5 Announced

[haphazard1]

I have to agree that the +8 gpt national wonder is pretty pathetic -- unless it is VERY cheap, why would I bother? Most likely it will be ridiculously expensive, and no one will ever build it.

But there is a lot of promising stuff in the patch list, even if too much does look like nerfing strategies that work rather than opening up new strategies. The changes to cavalry and lancer upgrade paths should be positive, they have toned down the defense penalty for open terrain (should have just eliminated it), and the AI unit tactics changes may make the AI merely extremely stupid in combat instead of hopeless. (Have to wait and see on that, of course.)

But all the stuff to nerf ICS and force players into the Procrustean bed of Jon Shafer's preferred 3 city empire...meh. SevenSpirits is probably correct that bringing reality into alignment with their design intent may make the game work a bit better -- IF you enjoy that style of play. If you don't...well, too bad. You shall play the Approved Style and no other. Any non-conforming strategies will be sent to the reeducation camps, errr...nerfed.

The library zero slots change is pretty big -- no GS for non-Babylonians for a long time. Seems like overkill to me. Maritime CS nerf? Well, something needed to be done, but we will see if it really works in practice.

[Krill]

I think any attempt to affect strategy decisions based on one small groups opinion of what is fun is both incredibly conceited, naive, and just plain retarded.

[luddite]

Wow I can't believe they went so far as to remove scientists from libraries completely. I guess they really don't like having useful buildings available early on. Oh well, screw it, build more settlers I guess. Also- did anyone else notice that they gave an extra slot to the wat, but not the regular university? Siam is definitely going to be one of the best civs after this patch. Them and babylon. All the research power is now concentrated into just a few techs at the top of the rennaisance era, and Siam/babylon will have a huge edge in getting there.

The cost of a national wonder is almost irrelevant- the real cost is that you have to stop expanding long enough to build the required building in every city. Markets are expensive, and take a really long time to build in a size 1 city. So by the time that's done, you could easily have an extra 5 cities built instead. And for some reason they added a coloseum national wonder too lol... as if we weren't already building those everywhere.

I'm glad that they're nerfing horsemen, but I hate that cavalry now upgrade to tanks. Before, the only thing stopping you from a non-stop rampage with mounted units was that cavalry would eventually become useless. Now that's gone, and you can continue seemlessly into the modern era. And for some reason they buffed military tradition, too, which was already one of the strongest policies for this.

The AI changes sound great on paper, but we'll have to see if they actually work as advertised.

Overall... meh. It'll definitely help the balance- I don't think we'll be able to abuse the deity AI quite so badly anymore- but it doesn't seem to add any real depth to the game.

[Krill]

We should start a sweepstake. How long until Jon admits he fucked up in public.

[Amelia]

I'm going to bet on never, Krill. Some guys are just too proud for their own good.

[TheArchduke]

I am glad that they try to patch this game up. But I am not persuaded that the options you have get bigger. Scrapping scientists from libraries is a shame.

I fired up a game last week, built 4-5 horsemen, conquered my neighbour. They should start tweaking right there that the AI is not so a pushover early on. I am not sold on the city attack penalty there, I think movement is the main issue with horses.

[luddite]

We should start a sweepstake. How long until Jon admits he fucked up in public.

hmm.

Option 1: admit that you're wrong, and that you made a terrible mistake in your first major role as lead game designer. Never get another job like that again.

Option 2: Point to the strong initial sales, and claim it as a success. Get offered $texas for your next job working on farmville or whatever.

I'm guessing he'll pick option 2.

[Krill]

There are levels of screw ups, and this is by no means the worst. And critical success isn't commercial success, as you note. Companies only tend to care about the latter.

[luddite]

There are levels of screw ups, and this is by no means the worst. And critical success isn't commercial success, as you note. Companies only tend to care about the latter.

I still think this will hurt them in the end, though. The sales for civ V were based mostly on the quality of the previous games. But if they can't satisfy the fans, no one is going to buy the expansions, which is where the real money is. People might start to give up on the series all together.

[fluffyflyingpig]

Eh. Civ5 was a RESOUNDING critical success. Looking at metacritic, there are two English language reviews out of 50 odd that rate it at any less than 8/10 good. Most critics absolutely loved civ5 and I would not be terribly surprised seen GOTY nominations for Civ soon. http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/sid-me...lization-v

Civ5 has had excellent sales and great critical reviews by appealing to casual players, who ate the game up. It did piss off most of the existing civ fan base, but I'm pretty sure Jon's going to claim success and walk off with his money, unless he personally directs the next expansion that tanks or something.