[SPOILERS] WillPlunder as Mehmed of Arabia: Noobs meet world

[WilliamLP]

They could have turned back their scout for the same reason we did: They're more interested in what's around their own capital than what's off in the distance past another player.

Yes, 4W1S looks like an eventual Moai site, though it will take a while to build it there, and we'd want stone, so it's not a short term project. I think we want to scout over there with a warrior soon-ish as well. In fact I'm not totally sure that shouldn't be our immediate second city even though settler turns are wasted getting there.

I really hope 3N1W isn't our second city. It shares food with the capital but doesn't really do anything other than that. Even the lowly plains cow will take forever to come online, needing to build a monument and then wait ten turns for a border pop.

Another thought is I wonder if we shouldn't just cottage the rice tile. Nobody would think twice about cottaging a flood plain, right, and that's all it really is right now, until CS, and that's quite a long ways away.

Between turns the scout got attacked by a wolf, but got lucky only getting hit once. (Combat odds were 0.1% for the wolf). Still, it's going to take two turns of resting to heal and I'm going to do that, slowing the scouting down. E-E of the scout appears to be a peak, looking at it.



Demos show nothing really interesting:

[Plunder]

We need rice for the health bonus right. That's what makes it different from a floodplain, and floodplains already connect to a river for a commerce. We want to irrigate the rice at some point anyway. It's somewhat a waste of "cottage-growth-turns" to work the cottaged rice.

[WilliamLP]

I don't think we need the health bonus before CS. There's plenty of health around and no happiness. It wastes "cottage growth turns", but it also gets +1 food every turn worked compared to a grass cottage, which is a much more "here and now" kind of bottleneck.

I'm not totally sold, I just notice that vets cottage things like sugar and bananas all the time, those become upgradable and worthwhile long before that rice will (Calendar vs Civil Service).

That the flood plains already have 1C isn't part of the argument if we're not financial. It's a choice of differential, whether we want the +1F or the +1->+2->etc. commerce on the tile, which is the same consideration. (Other than the longer consideration - i.e. what happens after Civil Service).

[Plunder]

Well, at the moment working the improved clams is superior to a cottaged rice.

Also, if we build a 3N1W-city we might use the rice tile, and then having 4 food on it might be more useful, especially since the cows may take some time to get online.

I'm not completely against the idea, but I think growing a grassland cottage to a town is more valuable on the long run than growing a rice cottage knowing it'll be destroyed later.

Edit: but maybe you are right. If you think of Civ as a snowball game (and we should think of it that way) working a cottaged rice tile will bring us up to speed faster. If we replace the cottage later the loss is relatively smaller, and will not slow is down too much.

[Plunder]

Noob question: Settling on plains hills gives +1H, settling on bananas gives +1F. Are there any other bonus or land types that give a bonus for city-production when settling on top of them?

(why did they remove that thread, I really liked that idea from Teleh)

[NobleHelium]

The formula for the yield of a city tile is Max([2f, 1h, 1c], [normal tile yield]), where Max() is applied to each yield type.

[Cornflakes]

[screenshot]http://www.imageLink.whatever[/screenshot] makes your pictures display nicely on smaller screens (rather than using [img])

pretty please

[WilliamLP]

Sure, I can do (screenshot).

NobleHelium: thanks for the formula. It makes sense; I recently settled on plains hill marble in a SP game as was surprised to get an amazing 3 hammer capital.

I agree about Teleh's thread being a really good idea. The sad thing is that I never even got to read the answers to my question in there before it got deleted!

The thing about making any decision on the basis of what happens post CS is it's just so far away, easily more than 100 turns from now I think. In perspective that will probably be several months from now when it makes a difference. But... the argument that the site to the N of the capital will be low on food is a fair one.

Btw, when we do settle that city, I'm thinking it probably makes more sense to get cows in the first ring and use the rice? Getting monuments online is so slow. Oh well we'll see what the next turns bring for scouting and map info.

[Plunder]

Dunno, I'm thinking about getting a religion to avoid building (useless?) monuments. But I'm sure other teams will think the same thing.

I don't think getting cows first ring is essential. We'll be able to either work an improved clams, or the rice, thanks to capital-culture.

[WilliamLP]

My thoughts on religion are:
- We'll get one anyway through spread, eventually.
- We'd still need missionaries, which need more time / hammer investment to get started.
- We also need another turn of anarchy.
- The beakers are a heck of an opportunity cost. E.g. we'd really like AH sooner for pigs, cows, and to crucially reveal horses and allow chariots.
- The real reason to found one is the shrine, which admittedly we're one of the few to best take advantage of, with the ability to generate GP points.