Civilization 5 Announced

[Krill]

Yeah...same feeling. Why do I care?

[luddite]

It seems like Firaxis is finally starting to realize that production is too high and the map is too small for the kind of tactical war game that they want to make. I'd like them to go even further though- increase the city distance more, and decrease the food growth requirements a lot more. Well, that and fix the basic multiplayer issues so that people can actually play.

[Sullla]

I can't really say these changes are bad; a lot of them were ripped directly from mods, and they will improve balance. At the same time, the devs are really ramming home their vision of what they want Civ5 to be: few cities, few units, very little gain from individual tiles. The nerf to trading posts and change to how Golden Ages work are a direct hit on tile yields. They apparently want production to come from city improvements, not tiles, as a means of countering ICS. It all goes back to the original design: they want players to build a handful of cities (probably 5-6 on a standard size map) and then puppet anything else. Remember how Jon Shafer said repeatedly he liked to play Civ5 with just 3 cities? They are very determined to force that gameplay, as seen in the further nerfing of colosseums/theatres (even less happiness for the human player!) and flat-out changing of minimum distance between cities (which I feel is a total cop-out, inability to solve the real issues under the hood, but whatever).

And don't get me wrong, they're achieving better balance that way, but... for me, the design is all wrong, and it's not a game I'm interested in playing. For me, Civilization is about building big empires and huge armies. I hate all this crap about "we must make small empires competitive with large ones." Load of bull! If I put in the time and work to get 20 cities, you're darn right I should be stronger than the guy who stopped at 3 cities. They're going in completely, 100% the wrong direction as far as creating a game I want to play. Nor do I think it's a good direction for the Civ series as a whole... but I guess it will appeal to some people.

Oh well. I'm past caring about Civ5 at this point. Hey, where's those Hotseat/PBEM/Pitboss options that we promised? Still waiting? Yeah, that's what I thought.

[MJW (ya that one)]

ICS is still best. Firaxis does not understand how weak buildings and social poicies really are. They need to buff them crazyly to make ICS weaker.

The changes are not enough below Inmortal or maybe diety. The AI just can not afford to waste that much production building miltary units that die uselessly before doing anything without extreme handicaps.

[T-hawk]

but I guess it will appeal to some people.

Exactly. Game reviewers, bound by the Videocratic oath of "I must finish a game before reviewing it", love for a game to be small and get their job over with quickly. Casual players who conquer the world a time or two and then go on to the next Call of Duty or Madden game love small. Busy dads who get an hour of gaming a week inbetween soccer practice and piano recitals and pediatrician appointments love small.

And there's way more of them than there are of us.

[Kristian95]

Exactly. Game reviewers, bound by the Videocratic oath of "I must finish a game before reviewing it", love for a game to be small and get their job over with quickly. Casual players who conquer the world a time or two and then go on to the next Call of Duty or Madden game love small. Busy dads who get an hour of gaming a week inbetween soccer practice and piano recitals and pediatrician appointments love small.

And there's way more of them than there are of us.

I'm a busy dad and I don't love small :neenernee

[haphazard1]

I am still following this thread (and a few at CFC) because it is like watching a gory, gruesome train wreck. I just can't tear myself away from the ongoing, mis-step after mis-step disaster.

Wow. Tile yields go down still further, you can't get much production from tiles even during a golden age, fewer cities further apart leaving even more gaps in what is supposedly your empire.... Small, small, small everywhere you look. And as Sullla said, Firaxis is spending all their effort trying to force you to play their way and only their way. No gameplay innovation from the actual end user permitted or desired.

Luddite nailed it with his .sig -- Civ V is all about NOT building anything. And still nothing for multiplayer.

[Sullla]

Oh, one more thing:

Landed Elite: +15% Growth, and +2 Food per city.

WTF, Firaxis?! Your whole game design is based around fewer, larger cities, and then you casually throw this out in the patch notes?! Do you have any clue what you're doing???

These guys are so incompetent, they can't even nerf ICS properly.

[fire&ice]

If they realy are trying to nerf ICS they are doing a bad job of it.

Oligarchy: Garrisoned units cost no maintenance, and cities with a garrison gain +100% ranged combat strength.

Store crossbowman or artillery in every city. You get a 90 unit army facing a 30 unit army (in diety?) a much smaller one. Also none of your borders are weak because you got huge ass army spread everywhere.

Landed Elite: +15% Growth, and +2 Food per city.

heres you marine city state from begining. only 1 but you still get one

Market and Bazaar provide 2 gold (as well as +25%)

Free builds that give you gold why thank you (your gona build the bloody things any way)

Trade routes get bonus gold based on population of capital

am i the only one who grows their captial when doing ICS

Bonus production from excess food (used when building settlers) tapers off if excess is 3 or more.

ICS has no bonus food only hurts people playing the way they want to play

Hospital adds 5 food (but no longer retains food), requires Aqueduct

a little cost but Market, bank, stock exchange, and your tradeing posts cover it. And when your done building Hospital if you need it that is sell aqueduct less cost and you still get free food.

Representation: Each city you found will increase the cost of your next Policy by 33% less. Also starts a Golden Age

This inspired a question did they get rid of the original increasing system?

[Tyrmith]

It's just sad because it reminds me so much of the Civ4 mods where the modder has a grudge against a random feature in the game. The whole rest of the game goes kaput but gosh darnit, they changed that hated feature to the way they like it.