[SPOILERS] - scooter's thread

[scooter]

So now what? Let me see if I can answer that...

Originally Serdoa was going to send catapults as he was going to get Construction very soon, so he would send a few catapults my way, and I'd use that with my axes and take down Dazed. Then I got this message from him:

scooter,

thank you for bringing me up to date. That is really unfortunate as SleepingMoogle is starting to run away (ignore score for now, it does not reflect reality as wonders do count quite much). We'll probably have to work on that, but I do have already some ideas for this "issue", though I think that will need some 30 turns till it makes sense to go into details.
Anyway, I have finished Construction last turn. Unfortunately I believe that TT has broken the agreement I had with him regarding settling. If that is the case, I would like to react quite quickly. Therefore, I wanted to ask you if it would be ok if you'd get some catapults for Dazed not in around 6-8 turns, but rather in around 15-18. If that is an issue for you because of his culture or anything, let me know and I will act accordingly. It is only that I would like to get some troops together to be prepared for TT before I start on the catapults.

I'll have to work now, but if you have any open points to discuss, feel free to let me know

Basically, he wants to kill Twinkletoes ASAP. I thought his NAP with Twinkletoes runs longer than it does, but honestly I'm not sure. Kinda strange. Anyways, he'll go try to kill TT, and he'll probably succeed. I'm thinking he has a NAP, but he's considering it void due to a (possible) violation of a settling ageeement.

What do I do? Honestly, I'm pretty much just going to ignore Dazed for awhile longer, and I'll peacefully expand across the water, using Great Lighthouse to support it. I'm going to be paying off Serdoa for a couple turns, and then I'll grab Monarchy because I badly need Hereditary Rule so I can grow grow grow my cities. Monarchy is started already and will only need 2ish turns to complete.

One idea that's crossed my mind is an evil one. I don't think I'll do it, but it's a fun thought to entertain. If Serdoa really is violating a NAP (I need to go back and check and see if he has a NAP right now), I could turn the tables on him a bit. I have the largest army in the game right now (a very sizable crew of axes)... Dazed has already offered to harass Serdoa. Hmmm. Something like this:

1. I made the deal with Dazed, but I do it quietly - I don't make peace with him.
2. I reposition my axes to his border
3. I load up my axes on the island into a galley
4. I wait until Serdoa declares war and moves in on Twinkletoes. Once his army has left his border, I move in with my axes on his mainland (Dazed's archers come along too), and I try to boat his island city (or cities if he has more than one).
5. I lock up a long-term deal with SleepingMoogle, securing my southern border

More things to consider:

1. I walk away from it as a net diplo positive, because I come across as the "punish the evil NAP breaker!" guy which everyone generally likes.
2. I could get some fun rage emails from Serdoa
3. I like numbered lists.

The idea would be yeah I'd lose Serdoa as a potential ally, but I could secure Twinkletoes as an ally. Serdoa as an ally scares the tar out of me since his diplo style is moderately insane. I never know who he's going to declare war on next, and I never know how he'll react to things. Sandover - if you're still lurking here - let's just say you'd like this guy .

Fun idea. Chance of me doing it - 15%. Just seems too big a gamble really, and would *further* distract me from expansion. Also if it fails, my game is over. Also I really do think the me-Serdoa thing can work well, it's just... scary? Also it seems to be a bit of a sleazy move, which I'm not nuts about. If he doesn't have a NAP, then forget it, it's not good enough grounds. If he IS breaking the NAP, I wouldn't feel that bad about it, considering how can I trust a NAP-breaking ally?? At least that's what I'd tell myself. Half of me isn't even totally convinced TT lied about the horses the way Serdoa makes it sound. Maybe Serdoa just misunderstood? Maybe he's lying to me. I just see a scenario that goes like this:

Serdoa: "Hey Twinkletoes do we have horses on our continent?"
Twinkletoes: "Nope, no horses on our continent."

<time goes by>

Serdoa: "He lied! He said he couldn't see any horses! He must die!"

(Those fuzzy on details - there aren't horses on our continent unless I've been misinformed. It's on our island on the tile workable by the capital according to Serdoa)

Lurker question - from what you've seen of Serdoa so far and the things I've shared (I guess I haven't shared that much of my diplo with him, but I'm sure he's shared a lot of it in his thread as he's more active than me)... Would the above scenario surprise you even slightly? It sounds totally believable right? I can't help but wonder if that's what happened, because Twinkletoes doesn't seem like the blatant lie type, let alone the blatant *dumb* lie type.

[Sandover]

Sandover - if you're still lurking here - let's just say you'd like this guy .

I haven't actually taken the time to read his thread yet but he sounds like a brilliant mind for sure.

[athlete4life10]

Scooter,

You're idea would definitely be fun to lurk, though I would suggest it to not be worthwhile...

What about tweaking it a little bit? Let him push himself against TT a bit whil you co-ordinate with SleepingMoogle? You expand and secure a border...when Serdoa is done Serdoa comes and helps you get that last city of Dazed's and continue to expand. You should be able to eventually get a lead and take your pick of who you want to stick with...

At some point though you would have to make a clear decision as to who you'll back and who you want watching your back.

Just some thoughts!

Athlete

[pocketbeetle]

Lurker question - from what you've seen of Serdoa so far and the things I've shared (I guess I haven't shared that much of my diplo with him, but I'm sure he's shared a lot of it in his thread as he's more active than me)... Would the above scenario surprise you even slightly?

<<Yoda-voice>>
Hmm! All things, possible, are.

2. I could get some fun rage emails from Serdoa
3. I like numbered lists.

[Krill]

I kinda doubt us giving our opinions of Serdoa would be, well, fair?

[Bobchillingworth]

Yeah, you should totally go through with that plan. And then, when Dazed has moved most of his garrison out to attack Serdoa, backstab him and raze his city! Then convince TT that it was all part of a complex plot to get Moogle's guard down, and once TT believes you betray them both! Then finish it off by telling Serdoa that the entire sequence of events was an elaborate scheme to see if you could truly trust each other, before finally turning on him!

[athlete4life10]

Yeah, you should totally go through with that plan. And then, when Dazed has moved most of his garrison out to attack Serdoa, backstab him and raze his city! Then convince TT that it was all part of a complex plot to get Moogle's guard down, and once TT believes you betray them both! Then finish it off by telling Serdoa that the entire sequence of events was an elaborate scheme to see if you could truly trust each other, before finally turning on him!

ROTFL

This was hilarious!

[scooter]

So that's how to get some serious lurker comments . Throw out a stream-of-consciousness post with a half-baked plot that is only about 15% serious, and just sit back and wait.

Maybe I wasn't clear - I wasn't really seriously considering the idea. My civ is, for better or for worse, tied to Serdoa. That post was more or less spawned because I was bored at work and had a few crazy ideas like that go through my head, so I figured why not write about it. I find that my stream-of-consciousness posts tend to be more interesting, so that's basically what that "idea" was. The only way I would even consider it is if I had a bunch of lurkers scream "do it do it!" and that's definitely not what I got.

There's just so many crazy possibilities with this map/game setup, that it's fun to entertain some of the crazier ones every now and then. I get the feeling when this game is over and Serdoa reads that post, he might get a kick out of it. Plus it gives lots of "what if" discussion material.

Athlete's comment though was more or less right on though - I need a closer relationship with SleepingMoogle to cover myself through the next phase of the game. Serdoa wants me to go to war with SleepingMoogle for whatever reason, and I need to temper that. Also, if Serdoa ever does backstab me, it'd be nice to have another friend. Ideally I won't be at war (besides the perpetual Dazed war) for a very long time.

I kinda doubt us giving our opinions of Serdoa would be, well, fair?

Of course not, I wasn't really expecting a real answer

[Krill]

What turn is it? Turn 50?

Once the game is over,could always start a new game from this turn, and replay it in a different manner to see what could have happened. Could even do it now with a bunch of different players. There have been a fair few points in a lot of the game were replaying from specific points could be a really fun and educational activity.

[scooter]

What turn is it? Turn 50?

Once the game is over,could always start a new game from this turn, and replay it in a different manner to see what could have happened. Could even do it now with a bunch of different players. There have been a fair few points in a lot of the game were replaying from specific points could be a really fun and educational activity.

Turn 62. I completely agree - there's so many different routes that could be taken, it'd be fun to see a few alternate possibilities play out.