Just a heads up, I don't think i'll be able to play today, so i'll probably play tomorrow night.
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Holy Warriors - Civilization 5 (BNW) Succession Game
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Played. Save is up. Report to come tomorrow, because I'm pretty tired.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2124...5.Civ5Save T-Hawk, you are up, as per Timmy's request. Quick notes about the save before report: There's 2 workers and an exploring WB unmoved. One worker should probably go farm the hill that Faith recently acquired (should have noticed that we'd get that tile and moved the worker before, my mistake). The other I think is farming already. Watch out for the quest to build a road to Monaco, the worker that just finished a mine near Monaco needs to road the hill tile. Quick overview shot: 
Got it and looked over the save, can play Wednesday night. Saw the blank hill at Faith and the nearby worker before even seeing that you mentioned it.
 But actually that tile should probably be farmed for +2 food with Civil Service rather than mined for +1 hammer.I see Hagia Sophia under production at Piety, and will make sure we spawn the 300 faith prophet before the wonder completes. We're agreed on using the 300-faith prophet to squelch competing religions, right? Islam has spread to Morocco's two cities but no other is near converting, so I think this plan will still work. I'd also use the prophet on the Iroquois holy city. What we're missing is any pressure from our own religion, all our nearby cities grew too fast to convert from pressure. That will have to wait for the Borobudur missionaries, assuming we get that, but then we'll easily convert half a continent between ourselves and Rome and Russia. The Hagia prophet should be for enhancement, I suppose. Have we decided on an enhancer belief? I guess it's one of the passive pressure boosters? I've tried Just War before (+20% combat near enemy cities following it) and it really doesn't work, the only way to get your religion in there is by spending a Prophet and we probably won't have many more of those if any. (June 23rd, 2015, 23:53)T-hawk Wrote: We're agreed on using the 300-faith prophet to squelch competing religions, right? Islam has spread to Morocco's two cities but no other is near converting, so I think this plan will still work. I'd also use the prophet on the Iroquois holy city. OK, trust Thawk on what's possible with squelching. Can't open the save now but that overview picture looks pretty good There is one other enhancer belief that is +20% when fighting 'near' own cities/own religion - is that worth considering? with faith meaning we have fewer units, I could see us having to start each war defensively (fight on our territory to kill the AI's standing army, then advance once they are gassed). A little confused on logic - Thawk you appear to be saying 'we'll convert half a continent' but not have any enemy cities? That might make sense if we save the our-religion AIs for our last war targets so they keep feeding us pilgramage faith. I do think we will eventually get one more prophet from finishing Piety - assuming we do take the purchase discount policy and Reformation for the later units, it's only one policy away. But that isn't for a while. Are we set on 2nd follower belief? The +2 faith from wonders might be good, we will hopefully have 4 of those soon. Or +2 happy from temples with 5 followers, although as noted our own cities are not close to converting yet. (June 23rd, 2015, 23:53)T-hawk Wrote: We're agreed on using the 300-faith prophet to squelch competing religions, right? Islam has spread to Morocco's two cities but no other is near converting, so I think this plan will still work. I'd also use the prophet on the Iroquois holy city. Yeah, Morocco annoyingly managed to get a second city with Islam. No surprises there, though, since they have Stonehenge + are going Piety. If you think squelching them will still work, I'm happy with this strategy. Otherwise, I think they'll convert the western Rome cities pretty soon.  (June 24th, 2015, 01:51)timmy827 Wrote: There is one other enhancer belief that is +20% when fighting 'near' own cities/own religion - is that worth considering? with faith meaning we have fewer units, I could see us having to start each war defensively (fight on our territory to kill the AI's standing army, then advance once they are gassed). A little confused on logic - Thawk you appear to be saying 'we'll convert half a continent' but not have any enemy cities? That might make sense if we save the our-religion AIs for our last war targets so they keep feeding us pilgramage faith. Morocco actually Enhanced their religion during my turnset and chose the Defender of the Faoth belief, that gives +20% when fighting near cities with your own religion. So, yeah, we can't do that.  They also chose another of the faith building follower beliefs (they have 2 of these, I don't remember which). Finally, they Reformed on the same turn they Enhanced - I got really nervous there, but they chose To the Glory of the God belief, which enables buying GP with faith (I have no idea if we can use a reformation belief if we are not the founders of a religion).A lot of the AIs went Piety to start, so there's still chance we lose the military reformation police... I didn't even know we get a second follower belief when enhancing, so I'll have to check the options before giving my opinion. I like both of Timmy's suggestions, though. Report soon.  (June 24th, 2015, 01:51)timmy827 Wrote: There is one other enhancer belief that is +20% when fighting 'near' own cities/own religion - is that worth considering?I don't think so. It works within 4 tiles of your own city, IIRC. Fairly few fights happen there. Edit: oh, and Morocco took it. (June 24th, 2015, 01:51)timmy827 Wrote: Thawk you appear to be saying 'we'll convert half a continent' but not have any enemy cities?For Just War, you can't get your religion in where you need the bonus, which is large established capital and core cities. You can get it in small fringe nearby cities, but that's not where you need the bonus. Yes, it would work against Rome and Russia as last targets, but by then we're probably snowballing enough on military that it's not necessary. Still, Just War is on theme and will help at least sometimes, could go for that if the team wants. I forgot about a 2nd follower belief. +2 faith from wonders does sound good. We can get happy from other places but we'll always want more faith. Morocco might convert the western Rome cities before us. But we will have ~10 converted cities exerting overlapping pressure, from the prophet and Borobudur missionaries. They will flip back any cities that are small in ~20 turns, especially if we do take one of the passive pressure enhancer beliefs. I always preferred Religious Texts (more pressure) over Itinerant Preachers (more range), but RT was nerfed from 33% to 25% in BNW, and I don't know if that makes a significant difference. This map might actually prefer Itinerant Preachers, as there are quite a few cities in the 11-13 tile range from our capital and from likely targets such as Marrakech and Rome. 
If we are confident we can spread our religion to the land of our victims opponents, I'm happy to take Just War. Itinerant Preachers feels a safe solid pick, that's what I was going to suggest
Turns 100 - 110:
Decisions: *After reading what you guys suggested, I paused the Temple in Piety and invested 1t into a Colosseum (seemed to be the most useful thing). I thought about the possibility of building Hagia in Divinity and the possibility of finishing the temple before going for Hagia to get the second GPRO faster, but both ideas seemed worse than what was suggested. So, I followed along. *I used 95 gold to buy a hill tile near Piety on turn 101. The idea was to get more production avaiable for the Hagia Sophia, since we were running out of production tiles. It also worked nicely with the placement of one of the workers. *Since we were some turns short of the 500 gold needed to ally Singapore (even more with the bought tile), I decided to wait on the Cocoa buy from Rome. This ended up backfiring, because Cocoa stopped being avaiable for buying on turn 104. Sorry about that. As a silver lining, Jerusalem decided to ask for Cocoa on turn 105, so if we manage to get it somehow, we'll get influence with 2 city states. *After finishing Mathematics, we could start building the Hanging Gardens. I had the chance of starting it in Divinity, but decided not to. We haven't met one of the AIs still, but the ones we met haven't gone for Tradition, so they can't steal HG from us yet. And I think we might decide to place the HG in Faith (after Borobodur) or another city. So, we need to discuss where to build the HG. *One of the TRs ended during my turnset, the one sending food to Piety. I started a new TR to send food to Divinity. It was our lowest pop city and I wanted to steal the deer tile for Faith (I did some tile juggling between those cities, even giving both deer and wheat to Faith at some point; right now, each city has one), so I needed to increase the food there somehow. Finally, Piety was more worried with Hagia and production for now. *I went for Colosseums in cities that needed to build something. Happiness is always useful, I guess. *I didn't improve some of the forests near our cities so as to not lose the bonus. Our faith generation is still pretty poor, so I valued +1 faith more than +1 hammer (especially considering Hagia depended on the speed of our second GPro). Turn by Turn: Turn 100: *Sold horses to Morocco for 45 gold. Turn 101: *Portugal went Medieval. *Finished Theology (we entered Medieval era, bonus increased from CS). Started a push for Civil Service. *Bought the aforementioned hill in Piety. Between turn 101 and 102 there was an annoying "bug" or whatever. Here's what the TR screen said on turn 101:  But as with everything in Civ 5, the interface blatantly misguides you. The TR that had 2 turns left ended between turn 101 and 102, for whatever reason. So, my micro on that city went bust and we didn't grow as planned. I reloaded and replayed to change tiles and make the city grow on that turn. I thought it was a fair move, considering that the game basically lied to me. By the way, there's no way to get the TR bonus on the interturn between 101 - 102 -> with the inner workings of Civ 5, your last turn of a TR is lost. Turn 102: *TR to Divinity, as explained. Turn 103: *Monaco wants a road to their City. I had a worker recently finish an improvement, so I sent him there. Here's the situation at the end of my turn set:  I'm sure T-Hawk will figure out the more efficient way to do this.  But just to point out, the Truffles tile is already roaded and we should probably start a road on the hill tile next turn, with the worker already there.*NC ready, we are up to 65 beakers per turn! Screenshot of Faith on the turn NC finished:  Turn 104: *Russia and Portugal DoF. *Cocoa not avaiable anymore -> I slap myself in the forehead. Turn 105: *Morocco asked for 126g, I refused. *Morocco reformed and enhanced its religion. The chosen beliefs are mentioned in my post above. *Jerusalem wants Cocoa, the silver lining of my previous mistake. Turn 106: *I'm exploring with a work boat finished in Divinity. We managed to dribble past the barbarian trirreme from that 2-tile-island camp:  *Turn 107: *Morocco went Medieval. *Our scout reached a peninsula with the other way out blocked by a barb camp. I tried to avoid being attacked, but a new horseman unit spawned and targetted us, even though there's a ton on portuguese units in the vicinity.  Turn 108: *Truffled to Iroquois for 7 gpt ended. I didn't want to make any deals with the Iroquois when they are being attacked by 4 Civs, so I sold those truffles for Portuga for 7 gpt. Turn 109: *Ragusa will give more influence for gold gifts in the next 30 turns. *Almaty wants a Great Scientist. *I sent our warrior to take a look at the camp that Jerusalem wants cleared. It has only one archer defending it, so it's an easy kill. I started pounding on the archer, T-Hawk will probably clear it on turn 111.  Turn 110: *Iroquois went Medieval. *I forgot to resell our two irons to Sweden after the deal ended last turn (I was pretty tired near the end of my turnset and the  was becoming problematic). Sweden actually offered me 2 gpt for 1 iron on the interturn, to remember me of this. So, I already sold the other iron for 2 gpt.About next turnset: *We will reach a new SP very soon. I think we all agree to get Organized Religion for the faith boost, right? *We will ally Monaco with the road + barb camp, so we'll get furs online, alleviating the happiness crunch for a bit more. We also have some colosseums finishing soon. *T-Hawk will have to micro everything after CS is researched at eot. Good luck!  *Need to decide on The Hanging Gardens. Where and when. *Need to decide what to tech after CS. Education, perhaps? *As mentioned, we need to decide on the Enhancement and Follower beliefs. I like the idea of Itinerant Preachers and the + faith from Wonders. Both will help with faith generation, which is what we need the most. Pictures: Russia and Rome:  Morocco and Iroquois (there's a second Protestant city somewhere, but I couldn't find it):  Sweden:  Land revealed with the scout. Notice the CS's borders; we couldn't meet it by land.  Demos and cities:  
Is Hanging Gardens worthwhile? Usually it is, but it actually seems rather meh here. We don't have any city that will get a major boost from the food, already being short on tiles to work. I guess it could support specialists later (in conjunction with the free Garden for GPP), but do we have any city suited for doing that?
I remember seeing that glitch on a trade route ending in Beyond Earth, so yeah of course it's present here too. Noted. I routinely reload and replay to work around game bugs such as that, no problem there. I don't think there's anything more efficient to do on Monaco's road, there's only one tile left to do and already got a worker there. Yes, Organized Religion. Still going to be a while before getting up to Reformation. Maybe we do need to start getting artist specialists going somewhere? (June 24th, 2015, 10:31)Ichabod Wrote: *T-Hawk will have to micro everything after CS is researched at eot. Good luck! Nope - gotta micro before eot. Cities are processed in order. If Faith has enough beakers to reach CS, it will do so and then the food kicks in starting with the next city (Devotion) right on the same turn. If it's Devotion's beakers that reach it, the food starts with Divinity, and so on. I'll handle it -- although we are pretty much maxed on working all improved tiles anyway. Tech, Education is one option, or towards Metal Casting for workshops? I think we do want to start flipping our trade routes to production rather than food. (June 24th, 2015, 10:31)Ichabod Wrote: Land revealed with the scout. Notice the CS's borders; we couldn't meet it by land. I believe we can, if the scout stays on that hill at the end of a turn. We can't see a city tile or unit of theirs to make contact -- but their sea tile should be able to see us on the CS's turn. I'll try assuming it looks feasible among the barbs. (June 23rd, 2015, 23:53)T-hawk Wrote: I always preferred Religious Texts (more pressure) over Itinerant Preachers (more range), but RT was nerfed from 33% to 25% in BNW, and I don't know if that makes a significant difference. This map might actually prefer Itinerant Preachers, as there are quite a few cities in the 11-13 tile range from our capital and from likely targets such as Marrakech and Rome. Also new in BNW, trade caravans exert religious pressure (which is why Itinerant Preachers tends to be considered obsolete in BNW, although I wouldn't necessarily agree: those caravans might be better employed elsewhere). What you might want to research is whether those effects can stack (iirc, the answer is no, but I wouldn't bet the farm on my vague recollections  ).
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