American Politics Discussion Thread

[Nicolae Carpathia]

There is so much going on here it's hard to discuss. There's the delusion that with enough aerial bombardment of gatherings, and spec ops death squads descending into villages to massacre their inhabitants at night, the population can be cowed into submission rather than be enraged and radicalized. There is the fixation on absurd metrics like "elections held" or "military aged males recruited" or "military aged males killed". Then there is the choice of local elites cultivated as allies being cowards and thieves and brutes. The average person with a stake in the Afghan government runs the whole gamut, from lazy unmotivated recruits to people with a stake in collaborating with the occupation to people who much prefer the social freedoms if a non-taliban government. And there is the utter disrespect of the US occupation towards the Afghans, from random acts of brutality to casual disrespect to harsh policing and monitoring with surveillance drones and biometrics. I mean, the US army evacuated dogs ahead of Afghans, and when terrified civilians rushed the runways, the troops opened fire on the crowd.





Also remember that only a fraction of that tax money spent on the War on Afghanistan actually went to Afghanistan. Most of it went to US based military contractors, making people very rich. So much so they could afford to bribe politicians and fund think tanks/media stooges to keep promoting this racket. Now, while US corporations would love to extract mineral wealth from Afghanistan itself, they could never reliably do so because of the instability: you can't have a capital intensive mining operation if you can't guarantee security.

[DaveV]

We have people playing civ 4 that were alive for Nam'? Wow

At least one...

I was a couple years too young for the draft, but that's what I see as the big difference between the two wars. Middle class college students who were worried about being drafted into service led the protests against the Vietnam war, although the rich and well connected managed to weasel out of being drafted somehow (e.g. George W Bush, Bill Clinton, Donald Trump, Joe Biden). The Afghan war was fought by an army that was disproportionately lower class and people of color, and contemporary college students viewed the war as Somebody Else's Problem (tip of the hat to Douglas Adams).

The quick collapse of the government after the US military prop was removed is strikingly similar, as is the desperate competition to escape with the last of the US contingent. It's sad to see that once again, the people who bought into the US story of a new era for their nation will be the ones who suffer the most.

On a personal note, my older brother, a veterinarian who works for the US Department of Agriculture, spent a year in Afghanistan in the early 2000s, on a mission that can only be described as nation building. He appeared on an ABC News segment, with a line of Afghani farmers with scrawny goats waiting for him to inspect them and give advice and medicine, while he stood with two fully armed and armored military bodyguards. I talked to him about the current situation, and he said he wasn't at all surprised by the fiasco following the US withdrawal. Afghanistan is still a very decentralized country, with most decisions being made on a local level by a roomful of men drinking tea around a table.

[Jowy]

With FDA approval given to a vaccine, that takes away one of the biggest anti-vax reasons. Surely they will now start getting vaccinated... aand they're taking horse dewormers. Lovely.

[Cyneheard]

With FDA approval given to a vaccine, that takes away one of the biggest anti-vax reasons. Surely they will now start getting vaccinated... aand they're taking horse dewormers. Lovely.

The lack of FDA approval was really just a cheap, easily accepted excuse. That was never the real reason.

However, FDA approval does make it easier for business and the public sector to mandate employees get vaccinated, so that's going to make a difference.

[Charriu]

With FDA approval given to a vaccine, that takes away one of the biggest anti-vax reasons. Surely they will now start getting vaccinated... aand they're taking horse dewormers. Lovely.

The important question though. Is the horse dewormer FDA approved? 

[Cornflakes]

With FDA approval given to a vaccine, that takes away one of the biggest anti-vax reasons. Surely they will now start getting vaccinated... aand they're taking horse dewormers. Lovely.

The important question though. Is the horse dewormer FDA approved? 

   

I put the above screenshot in spoilers because it ended up being larger than I had intended. The screenshot markup is mine, source for the news article is the London Evening Standard: https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/delta...51579.html

In the over-50 age group, approximately two-thirds of the patients who died were vaccinated. In the under-50 age group, although more unvaccinated individuals died, compare the death rate to admission rate: only 2.4% of unvaccinated patients who were admitted to the hospital died (72/3044) while 7.4% of fully vaccinated individuals who were admitted died (27/366). So vaccinated individuals who were hospitalized were 3x more likely to die than unvaccinated!

Compare the 2.4% under-50 death rate of unvaccinated individuals to the average death rate of 2% for all hospitalizations in the US in 2020 and 2010 ... admittedly a mismatch comparison of England COVID deaths to US historical averages, but still.

   

Screenshot markup is mine, source is US CDC: https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6140a8.htm

[Krill]

Is that a troll Cornflakes? Nit sure I get your point.

[Cornflakes]

Is that a troll Cornflakes? Nit sure I get your point.

My point is that even with FDA approval there are still legitimate reasons for the unvaccinated to remain unvaccinated. Based on the hospital admission and death numbers presented in the referenced article:

• In the over-50 age group: more vaccinated individuals were admitted and died than unvaccinated
  
• In the under-50 age group: Although the number of unvaccinated individuals who died was greater, the risk of death for hospitalized fully-vaccinated individuals was 3x higher than unvaccinated ... and furthermore the risk of death for unvaccinated individuals who were hospitalized is relatively close to the historical death rate of all individuals who get hospitalized. Therefore why take a chance on an experimental preventative treatment?
  

[Jowy]

Oh boy I don't even know where to start.

[Jowy]

https://www.reuters.com/article/factchec...SL2N2OD2CJ

It was easier to just find someone else who debunked it. Guys please don't take medical advice from social media.

“When most people are vaccinated, most infections and deaths are expected to be among those vaccinated,”