Civilization 5 Announced

[Ranamar]

It is a heartbreaking thing, to face the reality of how deeply the game has failed as a thoughtful strategy game. Much easier, instead, to pine wistfully for the magic patch/expansion that will fix everything and make all good in the world again.

As to whether or not there will be an expansion pack for CIV V, my guess is firmly in the "no" camp right now. Here's my reasoning:

Expansion packs for strategy games can have their features divided roughly into two parts:

1. Fundamental Changes to the Game Rules
   
2. More Stuff (CIVs, Units, Maps, etc.)

The second of these can be easily covered in the DLC business model, so all that is left for the expansion pack is the first component - gameplay changes. Once your expansion pack is focused primarily around gameplay changes, how do you justify it to the suits as an expansion pack, rather than a new game, or a standalone? I don't think you can. So the traditional idea of the expansion pack dies, and we're left with new iterations of a series to give us large gameplay changes.

Well, there is a third option... you can do what Blizzard is doing and announce a "trilogy" of games which are not-quite-expansions and each purchasable as a standalone game. Going farther back, the Supreme Commander expansion was released as both an expansion and a standalone game: I only have the expansion and thus can't play the original campaign. I don't know, but I'd hope that any version that required the base game to install came out at a lower price point.

Two strategy games came out last fall that managed to fall flat on their collective faces - Civilization 5 and Elemental. Both have been patched multiple times at this point. As Sullla points out, expansion packs normally come fairly quickly, and Stardock is still following that model with Fallen Enchantress (I'm sure you've all started to see the literature for it appearing on the web, interviews, etc.). That we've heard nary a peep from Firaxis about an expo at this point is probably all the confirmation we need that it's not coming .

I thought that Elemental was not such a fall flat, compared to Civ 5, if i read correctly on this thread?

From what I gather, the initial release of Elemental was, quite simply not ready for release and the developers even admitted that, to the point that, if you bought it before a certain date, you'd get the first expansion free. They subsequently patched it and, while I didn't get it, (I have too many games and not enough time as it is...) that meant they were promising an expansion from <2 months after release. Since I don't have the game, I don't know how much the patch solved, but I get the impression it involved some significant balance and even gameplay changes. So, while it was at least as flat on its face at release, the company handled it in a way that probably made their customers happier.

(For full disclosure, I'm somewhat of a Stardock fanboy, between their development of Impulse and the fact that they make science fiction strategy games, but I also don't tend to push the games to their limits.)

[haphazard1]

From what I gather, the initial release of Elemental was, quite simply not ready for release and the developers even admitted that

So the difference between Elemental and Civ V is that Elemental's developers are more honest? :neenernee

[Bobchillingworth]

Speaking of "honesty", has anyone seen this thread at Civfanatics?



Apparently most of the icon and some other art assets in Civ V have been copied from other sources without permission (apparently found through google image search), and then had some Photoshop filters applied to them for the game's "unique" art-deco style. Pretty sad stuff. Another casualty of rushing the game to completion, I suppose.

[Ranamar]

So the difference between Elemental and Civ V is that Elemental's developers are more honest? :neenernee

That, I think they may have actually screwed up worse (although I don't remember how unplayable Civ V was, because I didn't get that either), and they gave out free stuff to everyone they let down. (Which, admittedly, Firaxis might have done, too, but I don't remember hearing about it on the news site I tend to go to for gaming news.)
EDIT: I just remembered... According to the devs, the biggest problem with Elemental was that the developers had gotten so used to the dev version's quirks that they neglected to allow for the fact that customers wouldn't put up with them.

EDIT:
Bob: I've found that the matches in that thread are of varying quality. Some of them are definitely only "inspired" and some have a severe case of confirmation bias. That said, some of them really do look like someone just ran it through some thresholding filters and possibly tweaked the colors. But yeah, casualties of rushing the game out.

[Sullla]

Speaking of "honesty", has anyone seen this thread at Civfanatics?

Yeah, I saw that. Insert several more comments here about the poor choices and sheer laziness of the design team.

[Krill]

Yeah, I saw that. Insert several more comments here about the poor choices and sheer laziness of the design team.

I think that's a bit harsh. Laziness of the Art team, yes, but I don't see how you can blame the entire design team for that plagiarism.

[MJW (ya that one)]

I think there are effectively no legal issues. The damages would be pathetic and there are enough changes for it not to be a summary judgement. I think the examples are good and I really don't care that they were lazy. It would look almost the same if they put in the work.

Unless the expanison pack is annconcent within 3 months from now there will not be one beyond a gold edition with all DLC's and everything else on the disk. Because of the hoilday realse issue this is unlikely but still possible.

Because everyone has suggested why Civ5 failed I thought it might be fun to add my 2 cents. The root cause of failure is its over ambitous design caused by its navie lead desginer. Things would have had a chance of working out if Friaxis was strong but it was weak after the 2k takeover (they might have always been and were carried by Brain Reynolds and Soren but I don't know this). It was a bold attack out of a postion of weakness that failed. It is said that fortune favors the bold but it really does not. Everyone just forgets the failures.

[SevenSpirits]

It is said that fortune favors the bold but it really does not. Everyone just forgets the failures.

New RB motto ahahahaha.

[Krill]

Quote of the Month

Damnit, we also need a new quote of the month for June...

[MJW (ya that one)]

Quote of the Month

Damnit, we also need a new quote of the month for June...

I thought I misspelt "failures".