RBGW: Then and Now

[Lev]

I just want to play GW...

As I always stated in the past, its just a game.

If i were a member of this guild i would echo this sentiment saying: less qq more pew pew!

As an outsider with a couple of friends here ill stfu and hope this all resolves in the best manner for a community/group of people i've come to care for.

gl rb <3

[Jude]

If i were a member of this guild i would echo this sentiment saying: less qq more pew pew!

As an outsider with a couple of friends here ill stfu and hope this all resolves in the best manner for a community/group of people i've come to care for.

gl rb <3

i dont want it getting out that were friends because you call me a carebear :neenernee

[shadguy]

I'm new here and just happy to have a place to play and some cool people to chat with when I'm getting away from RL a bit.

I think the game and the remaining players are to the point where, at least for PvE [my thing], we'll tend to do most things on our own because we don't want to bore each other with SanctumCay or whatever. The obvious exceptions are the high level stuff [doa, uw, etc], the pvp [gotta have real people] or the odd zaishen quest [the best part of zqs is the extra motivation they give to do little random one off things with real people].

I tend to play survivors a lot, which I don't want to impose on others, so I'm off on my own a lot anyway, but I do enjoy our GC company while we're pursuing our individual interests.

Fox: Ideal GL? No such thing. [imho]

-Dave

[FoxBat]

Everyone likes the phrase "laid back" but I'm not sure everyone really agrees with what it means. Hureg repeats it and yet he was very much in favor of making the officer promotions more systemized/structured, because people getting upset about the "premature" promotion of his buddy aren't being "laid back." Other people might think that system is too much organization and taking things too seriously. What "laid back" means to me is that I don't want to get bogged down in commitees, monthly meetings, elections and politics to ensure everyone gets a fair say- the aim of the limited proposals I've made so far is exactly to reduce the number of decisions we have to make around here, so people can just focus on playing, and the established process handles things for them. Unfortunately it's going to take some debate to establish such a system, but the end result should be less need for future debate, politics and drama.

By way of example, I'm going to bring up another GW guild I and some others here have experience with, Amazon Basin. Many of their players show an even more laid back attitude than we do. The guild list will be filled with 20 or so people and they won't even think that this means they should try and organize something to do together. When they do meet up for large groups of 6-8 players the effort to coordinate builds is minimal and it's basically "bring what you want", even though that can sometimes lead to mission failure. The Leadership Team usually asks for input from people before going ahead with major changes, and they will continue to listen to input after, but when something is implemented you can't bounce up and say "you have no right to do this" because they are actual authorities. So there's less drama on arguing over guild changes for that reason. And when individuals can't get along, again the LT can step in with their authority and urge the offending parties to start shaping up and reducing drama, with the banhammer silently backing up their requests should they not cooperate. They also have established policy that everyone becomes an officer after 2 weeks, but only a select few have the authority to send out new invites, and the request must post in a sign-up thread for that to proceed. The end result is that because they have a handful of watchful authorities making the hard decisions and the uncomfortable talks and debates, with a few policies in place that members generally respect, most people don't have to worry about politics or drama.

Now I'm not suggesting here that we adopt the Basin model. I'm especially not comfortable with solving our drama issues by putting authorities over other people. I'm just using it by way of example to show how additional structure can promote laid-back play, so we don't have to re-argue every decision that comes up, or constantly try and redefine what our way really is. Just put a few open rules out that people can be happy about, and if there is a problem at least they can easily point to the obvious rules and start adjusting them, and they don't have to go getting angry at other individuals who represent "silent rules" that we don't even all agree on. It is a little proactive effort to reduce problems down the road, the kind that have been constantly recurring at times and making Seijin use this emote -->

Making it clear and easy for people to join the guild via the forum is also not opposed to a laid back atmosphere. Back in the D1/2 days there was a strong need for a gating procedure because the damage an influx of common hacks, PKs, or just item greed could do to a community were devastating. In many modern games including GW it's much harder to pull off this kind of greifng anymore. Additionally a peek in the other game forums (now even including diablo) shows that there are new people signing up for the kind of team variant things we run here. While there are probably many members willing to send out invites to someone that asked on the forums, the lack of a clear-cut precedent and place for that doesn't make newcomers feel especially welcome - and given the relatively low threat a newcomer faces, I don't consider this a desirable thing. A "laid back" group wouldn't necessarily be getting upset that random people want to join because they are "below standards."

Anyway in the end all I'm saying is: it might help to be a little more specific what you think is going to make things "laid back" or not. Most will agree to being "laid back", most will probably disagree on how to implement it.

[KingOfPain]

show how additional structure can promote laid-back play

Yea, work hard once and enjoy residual rewards.

It is not like we have not tried to hammer out some "hard rules" (search the GW forum and you will see many attempts), just that no one ever took up the torch and run with it. Some one should just take the initiative and write up a page or two, then have it posted. If there is no major objection and work-around to an item on the list, the item stays. The list goes up and becomes effective, even while we work on any omitted problematic items.

I don't usually go around busting myths, people keep saying we don't have any written rules, but we do. It's just that we have been blessed with such awesome people to game with (until you GWers - j/k, or am I?), dem rules never had to be recited. People with common courtesy and mutual respect for each other made those rules became, so to speak, unwritten!

Now, lets see who can pull up dem written RB "rules" by PrinceOfOuch.

[Seijin]

I agree with what Fox said.

So there, no one can say I didn't take a side.



:zzz:

[WarBlade]

Rule #1:

Do whatever the hell you want to get most enjoyment out of the game, as long as what you're up to avoids negatively impacting someone else's enjoyment of the game. :neenernee

Except in PvP where we might have to kill each other. :factionK:

[Seijin]

Rule #1:
Whatever Seijin says, is always the truth. His orders must be obeyed above all else.

Rule #2:
If you ever doubt Seijin, please see Rule #1.

Rule #3:
All Gifts of the Travelers must be donated to Seijin on a weekly basis. 5 gifts are good, but 10 or more is better. :aar:

Rule #4:
No matter what Wyrm tells you, his paragon does actually wear a skirt and he must be reminded of this.

Rule #5:
Fox works somewhere and we must get his phone number so we can ask him if our builds are leet. (NOTE: we must also get him to make a facebook page so he can give us all his advice on how to eat healthy) :kisskiss:

Rule #6:
If you need money, don't ask Seijin. Ask Fox, Wyrm, or Courin. :neenernee

Rule #7:
If you wish to discuss something with Seijin, please see Jude.

Rule #8:
If you ever have a problem with another guild member, please make a new thread, feel free to bash each other without interference from anyone else. When the bashing is done, we will delete the thread and your problems will magically disappear. Also feel free to add in any other problems you wish to have deleted like problems with STDs, an ugly boy/girl friend, your stupid boss, or reality tv. You may not add me to be deleted! (refer to Rule #1) 2:

Rule #9:
If you wish to replace the current GL, you must provide us with your full name, a snapshot of some sort of valid ID (passport, driver's license, etc.), your social security number, and a valid credit card that has your highest spending limit. (NOTE: this is a joke, if you fall for this you deserve to have your identity stolen from you!) :dancing5:

Rule #10:
Do NOT challenge the mascot. If you make me upset, I have the right to pew pew you! :fireball:

DISCLAIMER:
Do not party with Seijin in PvE if you have a survivor. He is liable to get your survivor killed. He moves at his own pace, dislikes pulling if it is unnecessary, and will willingly over aggro at times to speed up killing (even if its his own party, of course h/h don't complain much). Just remember Rule #1, if he says its your fault, its your fault.

I'm sorry. I couldn't help myself. I was bored.

For anyone who is still clueless at this point, it is all a joke.

[Hureg]

I have no idea what's going on anymore and have no idea why this all of a sudden became so much work after we pretty much agreed on a solution in the previous thread...

In the previous thread a bunch of us agreed (with the exception of WarBlade) on a minimal effort change of no one's an officer unless they feel they have active reason to be one, and in becoming an officer, a minimum standard of play coupled with not being arsey or uncooperative when a member asks you to help with an invite, promotion or guesting will be expected.

And the reason we decided on this change that doesn't actually effect anyone negatively is to create greater community cohesion for new members, who currently sit of the sideline until we deem them worthy, which is retarded imo and why guilds like the Amazon Basin promote everyone after 2 weeks.


The best I can come up with is that all the negative sentiment in the thread is because of all the other issues mentioned confusing everyone.

I've tried creating another thread for the forum revamp so that doesn't confuse the issue here further and suggest that if Wyrm wants to go on with his suggestion of scheduling events, he creates a new thread concerning that issue.

Can we go back to agreeing and implementing this solution?

Otherwise I'm happy to do the same as Seijin and just say Fox knows best, even if he's for replacing Wyrm with our totalitarian dictator disguised as a mascot.

[KingOfPain]

...and why guilds like the Amazon Basin promote everyone after 2 weeks.

If we were the Amazon Basin we should just do that.

And why don't we?

On a side note, shouldn't the one who invited the new members be responsible to look after them rather than leaving them to rot?

I am not dis/agreeing with the proposed changes, just trying to understand what this is all about to begin with.