[SPOILERS] Beyond the Shadows with Mist and Ellimist - Varn of the Sidar

[NobleHelium]

It's okay, I already know about the plan.

[Ellimist]

Why did you abstain?

[Mist]

Because I don't like to take part in votes I can't be objective. We have a clear stake in the map being bigger, I don't feel like increasing my chances by gimping Sareln's. A character flaw if you'd like

[Mist]

Anyhow, I've been doing some extensive simming, and I don't think we can pull off Plan A as assumed. Too many aggressive neighbours, too little time, too much breakers to tech. And there's Stasis to take into account as well.

Plan B ( Hybo switch ) will also take too long - map dependent, but I haven't been able to do it before t90 in SP. Without Stasis in play. This won't cut it, if we spawn somewhere by Sheaim / Clan / Illians on t90 we're as good as dead.

• We need some sort of early military presence before priests.
  
• Then we need a lot of priests.
  
• And then, if we're still alive we can think of going back to plan A and teching up all that economic baggage we need.
  

How to do that?

• I suggest we go for early horses and first swap to CHA. This should allow us to pull some flanking horsemen / HAs as a general deterrent military presence early on.
  
• Going horses puts us halfway up the way to Trade ( we want Trade, as it's on the path to Feudalism ) and opens Empy as an possible religion. Empy is better defensive pick than Veil. This does not mean we will not take Veil, we will, just possibly later.
  
• Depending on how the game goes, this also opens Deception and Nox. Which would be handy.
  
• After that we do a second swap to PHI and start stockpiling Great Artists while teching whatever we lack ( Veil, Mercantilism ) and going for endgame. If it runs all the way till third swap, which is possible but not likely, we take CHA again and mass wane whatever we got at that point.
  

[Ellimist]

I don't think we really have a shot of pulling that plan off either, and even if we do it probably doesn't end in a Sidar victory.

Our best shot to actually win is probably going to be Hyborem. We can try to focus on defense enough to deter the rushers and maybe swap to AGG at T70. With free civics swaps we can be swapping between pacifism and nationhood. We can adopt apprenticeship quickly so that AGG would give us the more powerful anti-class promos immediately.

We'll die to a determined rush no matter what we do, but maybe we can survive long enough for a Hyborem switch. Obviously we need to play defensively, but let's aim for a goal that will actually matter for us.

[Ichabod]

Haha, it's time to be rushed, rusher boy. Yes, I'm talking with you Ellimist :neenernee.

I thought about going Spi/Cha Sidar in FFH PBEM IV, but changed my mind after the Illians were picked (and they ended up with Varn of the Illians, which was my planned first pick), since I couldn't defend against a dedicated rush.

I'll be lurking!

[Ellimist]

I was wondering if you'd comment. I generally prefer the less aggressive civs in single player, and we had some ideas for the Sidar(that I will post when I get around to it.)

I think we have a fair chance(35%?) of making it to Hyborem if we try. Another thing to consider is all the luck that is involved in a typical FFH game with lair pops, huts, events, etc.

I think so far we have misjudged our opponents. We picked a civ that is more suitable for a long game and they all picked civs that could kill us before we get that far. We were trying to do something clever with our leader pick, but the odds are not looking great for us to pull it off.

[NobleHelium]

Not sure how Veil helps exactly with plan A? Is it just Ritualists are better than other priests?

[Selrahc]

Not sure how Veil helps exactly with plan A? Is it just Ritualists are better than other priests?

Ritualists gain passive xp quicker than normal priests.

[Ellimist]

Not sure how Veil helps exactly with plan A? Is it just Ritualists are better than other priests?

Yes. Our plans were always for Veil, ritualists, StW, etc.